(July 8, 2014 at 12:16 am)SteveII Wrote: You are bothered by not being able to always comprehend motives for God's actions. Let's suppose that God exists. Do you think that a human mind could begin to comprehend a non-physical being that always existed (something that you cannot possibly wrap your head around), that has the power and intelligence to speak the unimaginable complexity of the universe into being (including time), whose mind is big enough to know all past and future events simultaneously? I am not trying to hide behind the "mysterious ways" argument, but you cannot demand a motive or "crimes to answer for" because it is illogical that a finite mind could hold details on an infinite number of future events--which is God's perspective.
Any omnipotent god with infinite foreknowledge would be able to formulate an explanation that's comprehensible to a human mind. But additionally, I'm not asking for an exhaustive explanation of every possible thing that ever existed and ever will. When a person makes recourse to mysterious ways, they're necessarily discussing a single temporal event, a very small facet of the overall picture. Why is that so hard to discuss?
It's also important to note that we're not being given any explanation: god isn't even saying "you wouldn't understand, but trust me, it's for the best." God isn't saying anything, which is kind of the point I'm making: a person saying we can't comprehend god's methods is just making an assumption based on no information. They've never seen god, they have no experience with god that can be verified at all. We are, actually, in the situation where the person for whom all the evidence points toward as guilty is refusing to give any testimony. All those christians making "mysterious ways" excuses are nothing more than random people who don't know the accused saying that he doesn't look guilty.
Quote:Another small point. You said that "Any claim of mysterious ways...relies on the unspoken presumption that if god claims it, it's automatically true." Do you think that it is more plausible that an infinite God (as described above) would make false claims or true claims?
That depends on his motivations, doesn't it? If he's got motivations that require him to lie, I suppose he would. Also, "infinite god" isn't really something anyone can confirm; a god could merely claim infinite status without actually knowing that there's things it doesn't know.
There's plenty of reasons a god might tell a falsehood.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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