Why "mysterious ways" don't matter.

[SteveII]

I don't have to make a list. You already know what they are because they are imprinted on every rational (and otherwise mentally undamaged) human. Unless you are damaged in which case I could try to come up with a list.

The list would be the point. I think you would have trouble coming up with a list of objective morals that some human society (not just person but a society) wouldn't disagree with.

For example, I'm sure you and I would agree that murder is wrong. But there is hardly human agreement over what constitutes murder. In fact there is so little agreement about it that it is hardly a rule at all. Is it murder to kill a woman for having been raped (that's happening in the world right now). What about revenge killings? Killing enemy soldiers during war? How about killing civilians? Sacrificing people to the gods? Mandatory suicide missions? (Japan during WWII). Duels? (most of Europe until the 1800s) Execution of children for the crimes of their parents? (much of the Middle East and East thought so at one time). Exposing babies? Mercy killings? A father's right to execute any of his children (Rome during the Republic and early Empire). There are or have been societies that thought all of these things were moral.

Jenny, first let me say that I like you. You are smart, always thoughtful and certainly not disrespectful. When others finish their sentences or posts with some snide remark, name calling, or disrespectful term, it gives the impression that they just hang out here because it make them feel superior; and they really aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer and are parroting what others say.

I will be the first to say that I am not good at posting here. I am looking for counter arguments to my beliefs and I am learning to articulate them better.

I actually think that most would agree on most of that list. You will get some differing opinions on war.

I think there is evidence that there are/were people even in those societies with objectionable practices that know it to be wrong and it is only by some external pressure (religion, shame, tradition, fear for oneself or family, significant mental conditioning etc.) that individuals participate. It would seem that leaders (those with the power to perpetuate the practice) could often have other motives in addition to the ones above (as a deterrent, personal gain, political gain, etc.).