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If the universe was fine tuned for our life...
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life...
(December 1, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Heywood Wrote:
(November 30, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I think you're on to something. Think about it like Plato's cave, as Heywood's spider suggests. The world we perceive is limited to our senses, sight, hearing, touch, taste. But a bat's perception includes radar (playtypus' too BTW) and in many bats its radar perception out-stripes its sight and the nighttime world it perceives is quite different from ours. If discrete perception is all that's necessary to create a sub-reality than evolution has created many, many different sub-realities.


Now I disagree with your claim that discrete perception creates a sub realities. That being said, even if your claim is true, discrete perception requires the existence of intelligence.

No, I'm not arguing that discrete perception creates sub-realities, only that if that's how we define them, then there are many, many, sub-realities which are not designed by an intelligence. You see while sentience of some minimal kind is necessary for discrete perception, descrete perception isn't designed by the perceiver, only experienced by it. The perceiver and thus his perception is "designed" by natural selection.

So, if you are going to base an argument for a designed universe based upon designed sub-realities, you need a definition for sub-reality that requires more than discrete perception. Designed sub-realities mean a designed universe is your argument not mine, so I'll leave the attempt at definition to you. But until you define reality and sub-reality as you intend to use them in your argument, the argument is meaningless.

One question you should ask when attempting that definition is, if a reality, or sub-reality requires a perceiver at all. If you decide it does, you'll have to deal with question of whether the universe could be considered a reality pre-life.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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Messages In This Thread
If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Lucanus - November 30, 2014 at 1:06 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Nope - November 30, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 2:05 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 7:34 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Jenny A - December 2, 2014 at 12:52 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by C4RM5 - November 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - November 30, 2014 at 2:22 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Chas - December 1, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - November 30, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:46 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:41 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 5:56 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Smaug - November 30, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 2, 2014 at 1:08 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 3, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 12:32 am
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by Cato - December 5, 2014 at 2:27 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 10:02 pm
RE: If the universe was fine tuned for our life... - by IATIA - December 5, 2014 at 10:21 pm

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