Mormon: "There is no such thing as rape."

[John V]

I don't recall ever stating that I was certain of my correctness , nor that the system I'm describing is "objectively" better,

You're straddling the fence. You pay lip service to the subjective nature of morality, then assert that the well-being of society is what "we" should be striving for. You can't have your cake and eat it too, but you're certainly trying to do that.

because I don't think there is an objective standard to which to compare it.

OK, then we agree that your system isn't better (or worse) than any other. We're getting somewhere.

When I used the word 'objective' that was within the system when comparing and weighting the wellbeing of a certain decision. The justification that I use to assert that this system is at least a good starting point is that societies that focus on the wellbeing of its citizens instead of some other principle tend to be more stable and efficient.

So what? As you admit that there is no objective standard by which to judge moral systems, stability and efficiency are not justifications.

As for "You're just assuming women are happier now than in Biblical times"...well, I'll leave it up to anyone reading to decide which one of us is making the assumptions here. Unlike in the Biblical framework, the women (and men) who take part in the system I'm describing have their own voice, they can voice their ideas and make changes and propose challenges, which leads to a more egalitarian situation, rather than constraining them with arbitrarily-given "roles" in their lives.

Yet when I noted that I may have been better off with more parental restriction, you didn't argue that I was wrong. You consider individual autonomy to be morally good, but other people feel differently. In broad terms, eastern cultures see acceptance of such roles as a good, while the west is more about the individual.

I don't recall making any proclamation that this system is "the best" in any sort of real objective sense, just that the data throughout history are on the side of a human wellbeing-focused system being the most able to cultivate a stable and healthy society. I've even said flat out that I could be wrong on any number of issues, but the way to correct those errors isn't to simply decree that they're wrong, it's investigation and discussion and participation from everyone in society.

Damn, come on man, how can you say that you don't think there is an objective standard to which to compare, then continue to talk about correcting errors? You can't grade the test if there's no objective standard to grade it with. For awhile I thought you were talking oout of both sides of your mouth merely to try to win an argument, but now I think that you really can't wrap your head around this concept.