The End of the World

[Mister Agenda]

That's not an assurance. Once a worm is eaten and pooped out he would have to be considered a bad worm for not learning to survive.

Sigh. So is it your position that reincarnation is worse than hell because you might wind up a worm?

I did not say that and you know that, we've been through this before, your argument is boiling down to nothing more than the same old atheist cliches.

Your replies are the same old cliched Christianist evasions.

That's why we call him God, we do not have to describe who He is, it goes without saying, it is a given that He is perfect, without flaw.

That is a claim. Claims don't go without saying...proclaiming they do is an admission that you can't support them. Apparently all you've got to support the notion that God is perfect is handwaving. Which is a good summary of what you've got to support the notion that God exists, too.

More atheist cliche, I'm beginning to get bored with this.

I think this is the most substantive reply you've yet made, ever. It sums up what you have to contribute to this community beautifully.

Yes it is, yet Christ said, people would and I find it fits some here, if you can't see that you need to open your eyes.

You clearly really want me to care enough about you to hate you. Sorry to disappoint. You're probably an okay chap when you're being real instead of a salesman for Jesus.

You do not need to pity me I have chosen what I want and am satisfied with my decision.

You're whining about being hated and insist that I hate you even when I've clearly said I don't, which is essentially calling me a liar (again). I don't pity you because I need to, I pity you because your condition compels it. I don't decide to feel pity, I just do. If you don't want me to pity you, stop acting so pitiful. I have a soft heart, I don't like to see you this way, man. I want to feel like I'm having a grown up conversation with an adult, not like I'm kicking a puppy.

You should give specifics, how am I suppose to defend what you consider despicable, am I to guess and give you another opportunity to ridicule me. How is it you see my compassion hobbled, by what means.

If I argued the way you do, this is the point where I would claim I've explained all clearly or in some other post somewhere. It's rich that YOU want specifics when dishing out vague generalities when challenged is your specialty.

Between a heroic and compassionate Hindu and Dahmer going to hell, it's your position that the Hindu is going to hell and that it would be unfair for her not to go to the hell, where she would spoil Dahmer's heaven-enjoyment experience. It's your opinion that God owes it to Dahmer to keep the Hindu out, because Dahmer signed onto the deal with the understanding that he wouldn't have to put up with lousy sinners in heaven.

If you don't 'get' why I consider this despicable, you lack the capacity to evaluate moral considerations. Which is the sum of my point.

I'm sure God has disappointments with me, I'm not perfect as you seem to think you are, that's called self righteousness and holds no water with God.

You poor thing! Go ahead and keep telling yourself that I'm the self-righteous one if that's what you need to believe.

So I would rather have God upset with me than to have Him to give up on me. I sir will live in an eternal paradise, mercy is what I received when I accepted Christ as my savior, I have no worries, it seems though you might, at least your language hints to a nervousness.

Yet another attempt to deflect from the weakness of your position by trying to shift the subject to the emotional state you imagine I'm in from the 'hints' in my language. I don't have enough eyes to roll at this.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my father,who is in heaven.'

No, I know He exists, sorry you have a problem with that, the truth is what it is and I know.

Well, you can't argue with 'logic' like that, folks!

Care to prove that info, or is this another one of those atheist cliches that holds no water with me.

Is it your opinion that Yoruban witch doctors don't believe in Chango, that there are no Hindus within driving distance of where you live, or are you just being mealy-mouthed and obtuse?

And I think it would be hard to top whining about cliches repeatedly and pretending that calling something a cliche is some kind of adequate response to a point someone makes as an example of being too cliched.

I know there dreams are just that, why, because I know God is real with no doubts and, He's said there is no other gods that exist.

In other words, someone wrote down that he said that, and you believe that person was telling the truth because it's in the Biblical canon agreed upon by the Council of Nicea and you believe everything the Council of Nicea could get a majority vote on including was authored indirectly by God through human proxies. And you also believe that believing that constitutes knowledge.

The one God has supplied is more than sufficient.

Then have you considered limiting your claims to on what you can actually cite scripture?

You have some kind of misguided notion to how salvation is obtained, could be if others here have the same idea,

I'm limiting myself to what you say, since I've no idea what you think otherwise.

It's why they left the church.

You're a mind reader now? No generalization too broad for you, eh?

The sacrifice was made for all people, what you say with your mouth only means something when you accept the sacrifice in your heart.

Heart and head are both figurative. Is figurative language too tricky for you? That would explain a lot.

If you think there are some correct way of asking for salvation there's not, you just have to ask willingly.

Funny, that's exactly what I thought. Oh, and never change your mind, right?

If you're speaking of my above quote, yes all of mankind, if not then how could I be any better those who do not care.

So NOT just Christians. Who else gets in?

This is not in reference to anyone here, it's a general statement.

That's how I took it.

You know I worry about you, this is on the edge of sadist speech. You might need to look into some help.

Complain to a mod or keep your creepy, mealy-mouthed accusations to yourself.

Now to answer you, Paul said he would go to hell if all the Jews could go to heaven. He also said he knew that couldn't be, why, because it's always been about the individuals desire and Christ died as our substitute. My pleas for the lost go on in prayer and just because you do not know it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Does it happen after they're dead? Because that's what I'm talking about if you were actually following the conversation.

You have been included in my prayers and I've been here for nearly 5 years, believe me I haven't stayed here this long just to be called everything in the book.

You haven't begun to be called everything in the book and you seem to suffer from a delusion that you're being polite if you don't use bad words, and playing the martyr isn't becoming on anyone...but thanks for thinking of me.

I'll let the above answer speak to this, you sure seem to have anger issues are you okay.

I bet you run into 'anger issues' a lot, don't you? Has it ever occurred to you that you being a Christian might not be the reason for that?

No He can't they haven't asked, the further this conversation goes the more irritated you seem get.

Conversing with people who can't keep up with the conversation can get irritating, that's true. The scenario we're talking about and have been talking about is the dead asking and/or begging, whichever it takes to get a straight answer out of you, for forgiveness. In this scenario, they HAVE asked. Your position seems to be either that God won't forgive them after they've missed the 'deadline' or that for some reason which seems to be entirely convenience to your position that they utterly deserve their fate, not a single one of the teeming billions of dead people will ask God for forgiveness once they're writhing in torment and fully understand why they're being punished and what they should have done to avoid their fate.

They had their chance before death,

And the reason you can't have a chance AFTER death when you're fully informed is what? I know you don't believe God will show mercy once a person is dead, what I want to know is why.

I accepted the choice in this life, why shouldn't others have to, because they want to live their life their way.

You don't see that you've gotten some extra breaks, happening to live in a country where some version of the one true religion is the default? That someone in Syria or Bangladesh doesn't have the same opportunity to be a Christian that you got?

That's their choice, there's a price with that choice.

Not everyone has even heard of that choice. Christians have great market penetration in North America and Europe, but there are still people in some parts of the world who wouldn't know who you meant if you started talking about Jesus, and are dying to this day without ever having heard of the guy.

I have an announcement for you please listen, since I've said this to many times, they wont ask, they will only hate God even more because they seen their mistake and know what they actually gave up.

I hear you keep saying it, Repeating yourself incessantly is not a form of supporting your position. I still don't hear a reason to believe it that doesn't amount to this being what you want to believe so you don't have to deal with the idea of God shutting his ears to pleas of mercy. It's a pretty silly thing to believe, and the Bible does not say it's the case. In one of the stories Jesus told, the suffering dead beg for their loved ones to be warned. This does not sound like they're incapable of asking for mercy if they still are capable of seeking it for their loved ones.

Seems you do not know many Christians, and I've noticed that you are throwing blame onto everyone but the one's at fault.

I've been surrounded by them my whole life and continue to be surrounded by them. Most of them are not so dogmatic as you, but a large minority are, and some are even harsher. There are over 30,000 Christian denominations, only a moron would assume everyone should know what a particular Christian's specific theology is just because they say they're a Christian. It's not the fault that's the problem, it's the injustice of infinite punishment for the finite mistakes and foibles and cruelties of mere mortals. You can pretend that's not what it's about all you want, but I don't believe you're too dense to know better by now. It's not that they're being punished. It's not that they don't deserve punishment per se (though I can't wrap my head around that heroic Hindu woman deserving to be punished when Dahmer gets out by being sorry to the right deity), it's that the punishment is disproportionate (and the reward is, too), and that's what injustice is and mercy is not.

That's a sign of insecurity, are you really this insecure.

If trying to change the subject to the mental state you imagine I'm in wasn't already a cliche before this conversation, it is now.

As for the angel rebellion, God is letting evil run it's coarse, do you want to be part of the coarse, sucked into the evil Satan sales as good times.

I want to know why God made so many evil angels. And why he (supposedly) lets them mess with us. I want to know why so many of the beings who knew God personally found him SO intolerable that they knowingly chose literally the worst fate imaginable rather than stick it out. Well, that's what I want to know from people who believe that silly fable, anyway.

Maybe it's better to be on the side of the coarse that keeps people out of Satan's influence. I've chosen the latter, because I care, and I care because I know God is real and who He says He is.

If I 'knew' God was real and the same version you believe in, I would agree with you, wouldn't I? However, I don't.

Self righteous jackasses want be there either.

That should worry you. Have you considered being kinder? Giving straight answers to questions? Being patient with repeating yourself (we sure are)? Not speculating about the internal mental states of people you're conversing with instead of actually responding to what they said? Not saying 'cliche' as a way of avoiding a substantive response?

There's a reason you missed it, it's not there. I've never sold that to you or anyone else because I know that's not the truth.

A more accurate response would have been 'I"m too literal-minded to get sarcasm'.

Satan on the other hand would be more than happy to keep you believing that.

Satan is one of your gods, not mine. How you guys can consider yourselves monotheistic with God the Father, God the Spirit, God the Son, the god of evil, the archangels, archdevils, all the lesser angels and devils....that's quite a staff! But I digress. I think Satan is an imaginary enemy who's supposed existence is a serious problem for the fundamentalist Christian position.