RE: Just another gun thread, don't bother reading.
March 2, 2015 at 6:05 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2015 at 6:34 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The NSA, seems to you, to be effective at combating insurgencies? Where the hell where they for a decade? Food and fuel cost the conventional forces money, primarily. Food, fuel, these are concerns that face all forces, conventional disproportionately. We know about this, look at what our wars have done to our bank accounts. You think the afghans or iraqis are out quite as much? If the government avails itself of -every- tactic available it runs the risk of creating yet more insurgents. My point was precisely the opposite, that the factors you mentioned are not different from -any- conflict -ever- fought between forces capable of leveraging them -by any method-. .
I doubt that many americans would strap on a bomb vest, it's a pretty shitty use of manpower and explosives. Bombvests pale to simple roadsides. I see you carving up chunks of the country, I fear that you may be letting your view of those parts of the country cloud your appraisal of our forces strengths and weaknesses. You're imagining the south rising again...as it were- and lets hope not...because a troubling preponderance of our infantry comes from the south and them boys go for family before country. You mentioned the NSA.....so, lets say it's DC that turns into a chaotic hellhole first, whats the next move for the good ole NS of A (or any agency)? This is stuff that doesn't lend itself well to prediction. Part of the point of an insurgency...is to make a government pull more levers...both on and off the battlefield....that's kind of how they win......thats why it works. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'm just not sure where any of this newfound ability to combat an enemy we have consistently underperformed against is going to come from. But maybe you're right, maybe at it's darkest hour our government could finally manage to do what it has never managed to accomplish before (despite plenty of opportunity to do so).....
(your concerns, are the concerns of a conventional force....that's really all I have..you aren't leveraging that big brain and putting yourself in the place of a rebel, an insurgent...and you keep insisting that for reasons enumerated this time...this time it'll be different, we'll win...I just don't think so. If Bubba came rolling across the mason dixon in a reappropriated Abrams I'd agree with you, wholeheartedly...but he won't. -otoh...this is Bubba we're talking about...so some would probably try.... I think the deck is far too stacked, all an insurgency has to do to "win" is not be annihilated, that's it. Consider the size of the american public, the amount of weapons in circulation, and the vastness of the ground...and remember that against fewer people, with fewer weapons, in smaller areas...with absolute superiority and the ability to use intelligence gathering that we never could on our own soil....Iraq and Afghanistan were the best we could do.....but "Operation American Freedom" will go differently?)
-Also....until this hits home. An AR15 is mechanically identical the the vast majority of rifles in tit;s chambering (whatever that chambering may be...the most popular for AR15's being .22LR...which is why kids don;t get to shoot cans with their .22s anymore, can;t find the rounds (it's the most popular because they used to be cheap to shoot - 5cents compared to $2.50 for your smallest truly capable round, a .243 or .270...makes it a good range/target gun, also doesn't kick..and that helps). 30-06, 308s, 303s...7.62x39..and 12g slugs....these are the rounds (and rifles) that would plague our military. You can get an AR15 chambered in all but 303 I believe...but again, most simply don't - because they already own those chamberings in their traditional styl;es which work just as well for killing any 180lb target you find in front of you or out to 300y (our service rifles and tactics, btw, rarely effective at those ranges). A 12guage is fucking terrifying if you have to breach a door, let me state that as a fact won by hard experience. I'd rather the motherfucker have a damned bazooka or a bombvest than be pointing a duck gun at me. Hell, they make a .17mag that can penetrate a kevlar helmet now...thats a pellet gun sized barrel..... (I recently bought one...it's nice 30c a shot for a 200y target gun)!
I doubt that many americans would strap on a bomb vest, it's a pretty shitty use of manpower and explosives. Bombvests pale to simple roadsides. I see you carving up chunks of the country, I fear that you may be letting your view of those parts of the country cloud your appraisal of our forces strengths and weaknesses. You're imagining the south rising again...as it were- and lets hope not...because a troubling preponderance of our infantry comes from the south and them boys go for family before country. You mentioned the NSA.....so, lets say it's DC that turns into a chaotic hellhole first, whats the next move for the good ole NS of A (or any agency)? This is stuff that doesn't lend itself well to prediction. Part of the point of an insurgency...is to make a government pull more levers...both on and off the battlefield....that's kind of how they win......thats why it works. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I'm just not sure where any of this newfound ability to combat an enemy we have consistently underperformed against is going to come from. But maybe you're right, maybe at it's darkest hour our government could finally manage to do what it has never managed to accomplish before (despite plenty of opportunity to do so).....
(your concerns, are the concerns of a conventional force....that's really all I have..you aren't leveraging that big brain and putting yourself in the place of a rebel, an insurgent...and you keep insisting that for reasons enumerated this time...this time it'll be different, we'll win...I just don't think so. If Bubba came rolling across the mason dixon in a reappropriated Abrams I'd agree with you, wholeheartedly...but he won't. -otoh...this is Bubba we're talking about...so some would probably try.... I think the deck is far too stacked, all an insurgency has to do to "win" is not be annihilated, that's it. Consider the size of the american public, the amount of weapons in circulation, and the vastness of the ground...and remember that against fewer people, with fewer weapons, in smaller areas...with absolute superiority and the ability to use intelligence gathering that we never could on our own soil....Iraq and Afghanistan were the best we could do.....but "Operation American Freedom" will go differently?)
-Also....until this hits home. An AR15 is mechanically identical the the vast majority of rifles in tit;s chambering (whatever that chambering may be...the most popular for AR15's being .22LR...which is why kids don;t get to shoot cans with their .22s anymore, can;t find the rounds (it's the most popular because they used to be cheap to shoot - 5cents compared to $2.50 for your smallest truly capable round, a .243 or .270...makes it a good range/target gun, also doesn't kick..and that helps). 30-06, 308s, 303s...7.62x39..and 12g slugs....these are the rounds (and rifles) that would plague our military. You can get an AR15 chambered in all but 303 I believe...but again, most simply don't - because they already own those chamberings in their traditional styl;es which work just as well for killing any 180lb target you find in front of you or out to 300y (our service rifles and tactics, btw, rarely effective at those ranges). A 12guage is fucking terrifying if you have to breach a door, let me state that as a fact won by hard experience. I'd rather the motherfucker have a damned bazooka or a bombvest than be pointing a duck gun at me. Hell, they make a .17mag that can penetrate a kevlar helmet now...thats a pellet gun sized barrel..... (I recently bought one...it's nice 30c a shot for a 200y target gun)!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
