The Jesus Freaks Will Hate This

[robvalue]

That's the problem. They're not interested in an actual discussion. They have their conclusions, and they will just bend arguments until they snap in half rather than consider they might be wrong.

It must be scary though, to have so much stake in a belief that you must defend it at all costs. So starting with the evidence and moving forward isn't an option for them, because they can never risk missing the target.