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Was it necessary to create anything?
#13
RE: Was it necessary to create anything?
(March 25, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Alex K Wrote: [Apologist]
(March 25, 2015 at 6:29 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: I see you are getting into the spirit of things, becoming more nonsensical and divorced from reality. Good job!
I resemble that remark
Quote:But back to the point: If it is in the mind of God, then you should have no problems with the idea that the universe has always existed.
God can think our universe finite in time, or infinite, for time is not something God is bound by, but is an aspect of His thought if He chooses.

No. He would never choose anything. To choose is to change. And if one is perfect, change cannot be for the better. If one is perfect, one is unchanging.

I am tempted to quote Parmenides here, but I will let you search for him if you are interested. (Or, in your case in particular, I somehow have the idea that you [though not necessarily the apologist you are pretending to be] might know more about him than the average person, but don't let that compliment go to your head.)

(March 25, 2015 at 6:54 pm)Alex K Wrote:
Quote: Hell, I am an atheist, and I have no conceptual problems with the idea that the universe has always existed. What is the problem with it, for a believer in a perfect God? How does the eternity of some part of the mind of God constitute a problem for a believer?
Most certainly no problem. It is only a problem if one naively assumes that God is in our universe and bound to its notions of time.
Quote:Indeed, this seems all for the believer's benefit, that we are not independent real things, but just thoughts in the mind of God, that have always been, and always will be. What are you, some sort of atheist?
Why how would you come to such an impertinent conclusion. We are surely not independent from God, but no less real for it, for our reality is in the mind of God.
[/Apologist]

You focussed on the wrong word. We are not INDEPENDENT real things. And God, not being restricted by time, has us as His thoughts eternally, not just at some specific time. Really, you are sounding more and more like a closet atheist. Get away from me, you heathen!

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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Messages In This Thread
Was it necessary to create anything? - by ReptilianPeon - March 25, 2015 at 5:14 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Napoléon - March 25, 2015 at 5:24 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Smaug - March 25, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by IATIA - April 3, 2015 at 5:32 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 25, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by JuliaL - March 25, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - March 25, 2015 at 5:50 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 25, 2015 at 6:02 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - March 25, 2015 at 6:16 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 25, 2015 at 6:22 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - March 25, 2015 at 6:29 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 25, 2015 at 6:54 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - March 25, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 25, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by JuliaL - March 25, 2015 at 7:03 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Smaug - March 25, 2015 at 7:08 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by JuliaL - March 25, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Minimalist - March 25, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Tonus - March 25, 2015 at 7:37 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 5:51 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Tonus - March 26, 2015 at 8:08 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 8:04 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 8:09 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:21 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Tonus - March 26, 2015 at 9:37 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 8:26 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:35 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 8:45 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Smaug - March 26, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:35 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 10:34 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - March 26, 2015 at 2:17 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Tonus - March 26, 2015 at 2:33 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 9:36 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:42 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - March 26, 2015 at 9:44 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 10:00 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Smaug - March 26, 2015 at 10:49 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 11:22 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Smaug - March 26, 2015 at 2:18 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Brian37 - March 26, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 2, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 2, 2015 at 5:28 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 2, 2015 at 11:01 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 3, 2015 at 7:21 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 3, 2015 at 12:45 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 3, 2015 at 1:05 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 4, 2015 at 6:45 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 6, 2015 at 7:14 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - April 2, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 2, 2015 at 5:09 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 12:03 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Tonus - April 3, 2015 at 7:44 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 12:49 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 3, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 3, 2015 at 2:15 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by emjay - April 3, 2015 at 5:25 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by dyresand - April 3, 2015 at 5:32 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by emjay - April 3, 2015 at 6:31 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 5:13 am
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by Pyrrho - April 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by John V - April 6, 2015 at 12:30 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by dyresand - April 6, 2015 at 1:13 pm
RE: Was it necessary to create anything? - by RobertE - April 6, 2015 at 8:50 am

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