Debate: God Exists

[pocaracas]

Drich, my boy... that's not how it's supposed to work.
It saddens me that you fail to see that for yourself.

You don't go through the claims and pick the one that fits with your perception.... that's how you pick a political party, or an economic doctrine.

That is the way I did it. That is the way any not 'born an atheist' or born into their religion did it. What are you talking about?

I'm talking about that being a silly way to do things.
If you're ascertaining some tidbit about reality, you don't go into holy books which require belief and what looks a lot like self-deception for you to accept the existence of whatever it is they advocate.
You go into reality and find out.

You look at the world and come to your own conclusions. It's how you said before that you got there...made some wrong choices, got help, turned to whichever god you were acquainted with and found some sort of inner peace... or do I remember incorrectly?

Got me cnfused with someone else. i started out buddhist-ish

From my POV, turning to god like you did would work regardless of the god you turned to...

That's funny as that is not how I remembered it happening. Again did the budda thing first, mom changed religion turned to korean jesus next, nothing from him, went metaphysical hippy BS with my dad for a while, then it all came crashing down hard then went a-holeist for a few years. Then demanded a chance to spit in God's eye if there ever was one. Started beating christians so as to have them send a message to their God for me. God showed up, or rather I showed up at my judgement. Got to look Jesus in the eye did not spit.

You're right.... I must have mixed you up with someone else.... hmmm.... who, I wonder?....

Anyway, thanks for the summary!

So you tried this and that and then dreamed a dream... ahhh I remember!!... the dream of an eternity without god, wasn't it?
How do you reckon that idea came to your mind?

as long as it was some god of peace or something like that.
And it would work because that god, whichever it would be, would be in your head, in your mind. It's a placebo.

then why did hippy God work? he let me do anything so long as I did not hurt other people?

Secret: every god will let you do anything.
The "as long as you don't hurt other people" is your empathy at work. Most people have that, too, you know?

The problem with placebos is that they're not really the promised cure. Sure, they work. And it's been established that they may even work when people are fully aware that they are placebos!! But they're psychological tricks.
Our minds are too complex for us to understand exactly how these placebos work, but statistics show them to work.

The problem with people who have it in their heart not to believe don't actually address specifics only situation. which makes them look lke a douche bag when they get caught mixing specifics with situation, so they generally double down and pretend what they are saying is true anyway even though their whole philosophy has been outed as being bunk

I sense a passive strike... I dodge! The crowd goes wild!


It's an analogy. One that applies quite well, given the psychological overlap between the two situations.

Statistics also show that some people are unaffected by placebos. Knowing it's a placebo, for those people, destroys their efficiency. That's how religions are to me.

That's ironic.. That is how I feel about you after outting your failed placebo theory.

Remember that placebo thing I just mentioned?
That's how those instructions look.

It Completely depends on how narrow your world view is and if you are trying to make everything you do not believe under a "placebo" theory or not.
I say that not to be mean, but to point out that you yourself said placebo does not work that way, and now you are saying it would. But, again (i'm saying) it only would IF you think the whole word outside of your small world view worked the way you think it does.

My world view encompasses the whole visible Universe and considers the possibility of stuff beyond it.
It also acknowledges the complexity of the human mind and all the ways it can work to produce a satisfying "world view" while being an totally incorrect one. Knowing that, I avoid getting myself in a position where I can let my mind convince itself of an erroneous model for reality.
Yes, that's analogous to the placebo I know (or strongly suspect) to not work as advertised.

I'm sure you can find tons of people who have followed them and got the desired result.
And I'm sure we can also find tons of people who have followed those instructions to the letter and got no such result.

In all my time doing this I have failed to find one person who followed God's instructions to the letter and did not find what was promised. Now that said I know people who found what was promised but were not happy with the idea of eternal service to God, even if service meant to live as a King.

All I've ever known of those who found nothing were the disillusioned, the proud, the self centered and the rest of the now generation. Then beyond that the perceptually broken, and the 2 out of 3ers.

I wonder in which of those categories you're putting me...

That alone tells you that the instructions are not correct.

If there are those who find what is promised the instructions are correct.

However they may not be complete for everyone. Which is apart of what they are supposed to do. Sift the worth from the unworth. Meaning if pride has such a grip on you that you can not see fit to ask for help or if pride points foolishness, then know the instructions has eliminated the proud. There isn't any room for the proud.

Psychology, Drich!
What do you know about the power of suggestion?
Nothing... I'd wager.

Add to the mix the nature of the human mind and the well known power of suggestion, and your instructions are automatically nothing more than a cheap illusion.

Indeed, kinda like how the mind tends to close itself around what it feels comfortable with, and will disregard anything else!

Isn't that the textbook definition of a believer?