(November 30, 2018 at 10:45 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 10:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: No one claimed that the universe was not created ex nihilo, so no one needs to prove it. I would claim that I am unaware of any scientific evidence that indicates that it was 'created' or 'came from nothing'. That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo. No logical proof required, though some people claim that something can't come from nothing; they seem to be in the same camp that claims God did exactly that.
So you believe the universe was not created ex nihilo but you don't claim it? If you believe something, why don't you have the confidence to put it forward as a claim?
So you believe in something without evidence?
At least an agnostic will say "I don't know either way", i.e., whether the universe was created ex nihilo or not.
But you clearly wrote: "That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo"
"Something can't come from nothing" <<do you agree with this or not?
I know Cherub is gone, but for the record, I don't have a particular belief about the origin of the universe, there's not yet enough information to justify a particular conclusion about that. I'm more comfortable with not knowing than seizing on a conclusion prematurely. I would be surprised if the ultimate origin of the universe is not some form of 'natural causes', but I don't rule it out.
I clearly wrote "That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo" because that's my position, not that I hold the opposite position.
There are multiple ways 'something can come from nothing', but I don't conclude that that is what actually happened. We have reason to think it's possible, at least for certain values of 'nothing'.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.