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Arguments against existence of God.
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 (November 30, 2018 at 5:57 am)Gwaithmir Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 5:51 am)Cherub786 Wrote: I'd like to know what is the evidence the universe was not created ex nihilo. Only if a claim isn't being made. I want to know the proof for this claim "the universe was not created ex nihilo" 
No one claimed that the universe was not created ex nihilo, so no one needs to prove it. I would claim that I am unaware of any scientific evidence that indicates that it was 'created' or 'came from nothing'. That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo. No logical proof required, though some people claim that something can't come from nothing; they seem to be in the same camp that claims God did exactly that.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
(November 30, 2018 at 10:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: No one claimed that the universe was not created ex nihilo, so no one needs to prove it. I would claim that I am unaware of any scientific evidence that indicates that it was 'created' or 'came from nothing'. That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo. No logical proof required, though some people claim that something can't come from nothing; they seem to be in the same camp that claims God did exactly that. So you believe the universe was not created ex nihilo but you don't claim it? If you believe something, why don't you have the confidence to put it forward as a claim? So you believe in something without evidence? At least an agnostic will say "I don't know either way", i.e., whether the universe was created ex nihilo or not. But you clearly wrote: "That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo" "Something can't come from nothing" <<do you agree with this or not?  (November 30, 2018 at 6:03 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 5:57 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: Negative Evidence Fallacy or Reversing the Burden of Proof Fallacy. The claim already assumes that the universe was created.
"The world is my country; all of humanity are my brethren; and to do good deeds is my religion." (Thomas Paine)
 (November 30, 2018 at 10:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: No one claimed that the universe was not created ex nihilo, so no one needs to prove it. I would claim that I am unaware of any scientific evidence that indicates that it was 'created' or 'came from nothing'. That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo. No logical proof required, though some people claim that something can't come from nothing; they seem to be in the same camp that claims God did exactly that. Quote:The absence of anything to prevent the universe’s coming into being does not imply the metaphysical possibility of the universe’s coming into being from nothing. To illustrate, if there were nothing, then there would be nothing to prevent God’s coming into being without a cause, but that does not entail that such a thing is metaphysically possible. It is metaphysically impossible for God to come into being without a cause, even if there were nothing to prevent it because nothing existed. ![[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/zf86M5L7/extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg)  (November 30, 2018 at 10:45 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 10:31 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: No one claimed that the universe was not created ex nihilo, so no one needs to prove it. I would claim that I am unaware of any scientific evidence that indicates that it was 'created' or 'came from nothing'. That would be sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo. No logical proof required, though some people claim that something can't come from nothing; they seem to be in the same camp that claims God did exactly that. "sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo" is not the same as "sufficient reason to believe the universe was not created ex nihilo"
Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
(November 30, 2018 at 1:42 pm)unfogged Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 10:45 am)Cherub786 Wrote: So you believe the universe was not created ex nihilo but you don't claim it? If you believe something, why don't you have the confidence to put it forward as a claim? Semantics. If you don't believe the universe was created ex nihilo then you believe it wasn't created ex nihilo. (November 30, 2018 at 1:50 pm)Cherub786 Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 1:42 pm)unfogged Wrote: "sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo" That is simply incorrect. I can not believe that the number of gumballs in the jar is odd while also not believing it is even. It has to be one or the other but that does not mean I am required to take position that is not supported. By the same token, it it quite possible to not believe the claim that the universe was created ex-nihilo and also not believe the claim that it wasn't. If you have evidence that it was, present it. If you have evidence it wasn't, present that. Without evidence, neither claim is believable and both claims are rejected pending further investigation.
Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
RE: Arguments against existence of God.
November 30, 2018 at 2:37 pm
(This post was last modified: November 30, 2018 at 2:38 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The inability of someone to provide you with an explanation of some item x in no way demonstrates that your postulate y is true or even approaches the truth. That's your baby, your work to do. Insisting that they do your work and in reverse is textbook irrational thinking.
Can you explain why my coffee tasted like shit this morning to my satisfaction? If you can't, then how can you say that my proposition is false or irrational? I say fairies shat in my cup.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (November 30, 2018 at 1:50 pm)Cherub786 Wrote:(November 30, 2018 at 1:42 pm)unfogged Wrote: "sufficient reason not to believe the universe was created ex nihilo" Do you believe ice (snow) is created ex nihilo when the temperature is low enough ? Where did this ice come from if it wasn't created ? Our universe is much the same. It wasn't created. The energy of the universe expanded and matter formed. I realize this is a very simplistic model but I think it's useful.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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