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Abortion and Women's Rights
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights
(June 3, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Losty Wrote: A fetus in my opinion is not a person until whenever that debatable moment when it becomes conscious of itself. But that's just my opinion on what constitutes a person, for all that's worth. So for the sake of argument let us say that life begins at conception. A fetus is a person from the second that sperm penetrates that egg. A fetus is certainly no more special than other people. So, a fetus has a right to live, but its right ends at its need to use someone else's body to survive. We have established precedent that a person cannot legally be forced to allow the use of their body to save another person. So, you see, person or not is irrelevant. Even a person does not have the right to use another persons body without permission as means to their own survival.

You've given me a good and thoughtful counter argument, advocating viability instead of self-awareness as the standard for when "life", in the moral sense of the word, begins. Fortunately, these two milestones overlap, so the controversy is minimized as academic.

Some would argue that my timeline is too conservative, that the kind of brain development necessary for self-awareness isn't until later. I just use it being as conservative as possible when I debate the so-called "pro-lifer" crowd.
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Messages In This Thread
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - May 25, 2014 at 12:32 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by topher - May 25, 2014 at 12:40 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Foxaèr - May 25, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by ThePinsir - May 25, 2014 at 3:29 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by FreeTony - May 25, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by topher - May 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 25, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Minimalist - May 25, 2014 at 6:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by vorlon13 - May 25, 2014 at 7:49 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Lek - May 25, 2014 at 9:42 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by vorlon13 - May 25, 2014 at 11:00 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 25, 2014 at 11:03 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 25, 2014 at 11:07 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 27, 2014 at 12:11 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 27, 2014 at 12:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Minimalist - May 27, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 5:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - May 27, 2014 at 5:09 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 5:17 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - May 27, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by vorlon13 - May 27, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 9:02 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 9:03 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - May 27, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 9:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 9:32 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 9:34 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 9:46 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 9:50 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by kılıç_mehmet - May 27, 2014 at 10:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 10:26 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 10:34 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 10:36 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Artur Axmann - May 27, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bittersmart - May 27, 2014 at 11:05 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Fidel_Castronaut - May 28, 2014 at 7:47 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 28, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Hoopington - May 28, 2014 at 8:58 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Esquilax - May 28, 2014 at 8:06 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - May 27, 2014 at 9:36 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - May 27, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by kılıç_mehmet - May 27, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 28, 2014 at 7:21 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 28, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 29, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 29, 2014 at 2:56 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 29, 2014 at 3:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 3:18 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 28, 2014 at 10:40 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 28, 2014 at 11:17 am
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 28, 2014 at 11:22 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Coffee Jesus - May 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 28, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 8:16 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 29, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Writer - May 28, 2014 at 2:43 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 29, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 8:24 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 29, 2014 at 8:33 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 8:36 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 29, 2014 at 8:48 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 9:15 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 29, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 29, 2014 at 11:03 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 11:29 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 29, 2014 at 11:47 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 29, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 29, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 29, 2014 at 6:55 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 30, 2014 at 8:55 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 30, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 30, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 30, 2014 at 6:47 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 30, 2014 at 7:17 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 30, 2014 at 7:33 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 30, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 7:31 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 31, 2014 at 12:14 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by LostLocke - May 31, 2014 at 8:00 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 9:21 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by LostLocke - May 31, 2014 at 9:31 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 10:04 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 10:11 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 10:40 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 12:18 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 12:28 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 31, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - May 31, 2014 at 12:53 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 4:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 4:07 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - May 31, 2014 at 4:12 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 31, 2014 at 4:18 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - May 31, 2014 at 4:21 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 31, 2014 at 4:37 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - May 31, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 7:55 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 8:03 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 8:55 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 1, 2014 at 8:28 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 1, 2014 at 8:36 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 8:05 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 2, 2014 at 8:22 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 8:39 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 2, 2014 at 8:41 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 8:59 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 11:21 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 11:42 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 1:31 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 2:10 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 2, 2014 at 2:35 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 6:44 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 8:36 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Fidel_Castronaut - June 3, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 3, 2014 at 9:04 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Chas - June 3, 2014 at 9:47 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by RobbyPants - June 3, 2014 at 9:58 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 3, 2014 at 3:02 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 3:20 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Valkyrie - June 3, 2014 at 3:42 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 4:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by RobbyPants - June 3, 2014 at 3:50 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 3, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 4, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 4, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 4, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 4, 2014 at 2:08 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 4, 2014 at 2:14 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 4, 2014 at 2:28 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 4, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 5, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 5, 2014 at 8:46 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 5, 2014 at 9:00 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 5, 2014 at 9:15 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 5, 2014 at 9:40 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 5, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 8:00 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 8:06 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 8:38 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - June 9, 2014 at 9:26 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 12:27 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 12:54 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 1:24 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 1:32 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 1:48 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 3:03 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 3:16 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 5:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 10, 2014 at 8:18 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 10, 2014 at 8:29 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 10, 2014 at 11:52 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 10, 2014 at 1:23 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 10, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 4, 2014 at 3:48 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 4, 2014 at 8:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 4, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 4, 2014 at 1:26 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 4, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 4, 2014 at 2:06 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 2, 2014 at 12:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 1, 2014 at 12:59 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 6:51 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Chas - May 31, 2014 at 9:32 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 9:42 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - May 31, 2014 at 12:26 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 8:17 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - May 31, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 4:45 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 29, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Mr Greene - May 29, 2014 at 2:20 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 29, 2014 at 3:20 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - May 30, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 30, 2014 at 3:03 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 30, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - May 30, 2014 at 11:52 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by The Grand Nudger - May 30, 2014 at 12:32 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - May 30, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 30, 2014 at 3:08 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 30, 2014 at 3:15 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - May 31, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 5:23 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - May 31, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 10:14 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by heathendegenerate - May 30, 2014 at 8:53 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - May 31, 2014 at 12:44 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by BrokenQuill92 - May 31, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 31, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 31, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 9:03 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - May 31, 2014 at 9:43 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - May 31, 2014 at 9:49 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 9:57 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - June 1, 2014 at 10:16 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 1, 2014 at 10:19 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 11:45 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - June 1, 2014 at 11:58 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 12:12 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - June 1, 2014 at 12:25 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 1, 2014 at 6:25 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 2, 2014 at 8:09 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Cato - June 1, 2014 at 12:17 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 12:39 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Jason_ab - June 1, 2014 at 1:16 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - June 1, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Bad Wolf - June 1, 2014 at 3:08 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - June 2, 2014 at 3:53 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Mr Greene - June 2, 2014 at 9:24 am
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - June 2, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by LastPoet - June 2, 2014 at 2:37 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by LostLocke - June 3, 2014 at 9:11 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Chas - June 3, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 1:05 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 3, 2014 at 1:07 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by John V - June 3, 2014 at 1:51 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by RobbyPants - June 3, 2014 at 1:57 pm
Abortion and Women's Rights - by Rampant.A.I. - June 3, 2014 at 6:21 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 3, 2014 at 6:42 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 3, 2014 at 9:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 3, 2014 at 9:17 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 3, 2014 at 9:30 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Grandizer - June 4, 2014 at 5:30 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Snowflake - June 5, 2014 at 1:14 am
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 9, 2014 at 2:04 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by DeistPaladin - June 9, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 9, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Losty - June 9, 2014 at 3:13 pm
RE: Abortion and Women's Rights - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - June 10, 2014 at 8:30 am

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