Pope Opens Mouth; Inserts Foot

[fr0d0]

No one is putting any conditions on it. I'm certainly not proposing that. I doubt that the Pope is. I've heard his words quoted both ways. I think the fuller transcript is revealing.

"Cannot".

The quote, as I've heard differs slightly in Spanish (I think it was Spanish he was speaking) for this word.

Regardless, the people who use this threat of violence because someone might say something they find offensive, or challenging, is absolutely abhorrent in my eyes and goes against completely the idea of free speech.

Sure, you shouldn't be completely free from repurcussions for saying and upsetting people, but the people who are upset have no right to massacre those they disagree with. That's the bottom line. The very fact the pope is suggesting people should "expect a punch" is fucking disgusting.

It's been quoted plenty of times but it's still the most relevant thing I can think of in this discussion:

You are free to say what you want. If you insult a person then you have to expect repercussions. People are banned from these forums all of the time purely on the things that they have said. Are their freedoms compromised?

Well, we don't actually have freedom of speech on here, because this website is owned by Adrian. So, moot point.

Interesting. Well said.

It is interesting that he said he'd punch someone for an insult. Radical. Of all of the public figures he would be the last one I'd expect to challenge morality. Makes me think twice before questioning it. I'm putting aside my prejudice to think that. He said "it's natural", and it certainly is. If you had someone in your face winding you up to the extreme , your natural inbuilt reaction would out as a physical action. That's a fact. A result of verbal provocation is a physical reaction. People here fly off the handle verbally at provocation. They have no other choice. I like a good wind up, as you know. I've done it a lot IRL and I've pushed to the limit many times. I've never been punched in the mouth but I've had to back pedal furiously when my victim just didn't get the joke. I'm very anti violence, but I'm not naive enough to deny instinct.

Now you seem to be saying that a physical reaction equates to premeditated murder. No it doesn't. For an act to be unfair and therefore illegal it would have to be unjust. If I deliberately verbally abused you to the extent that I knew you would be driven to retaliate having exhausted all other courses of action, could you then be abused of acting unfairly? What if I killed your family? Abused them? Do you draw the line anywhere? What would redress the balance for you?
Isn't that one reason that we have the justice system? To help prevent vigilantes?
We call these acts terrorism where clearly, to the perpetrators, they feel that they are at war with us. We justify war quite easily. What's the difference here? Is war never justified in your opinion?

There's a line that you can cross when you offend people. They can be pushed too far. If I know that what I say will cause a physical reaction in you (assuming that you didn't have the mental capacity to overcome your instinct) then I think I can fully expect that reaction. In all fairness I don't think you could be judged to be acting unreasonably. It would be my fault.
I think a Muslim put it well when he said: everyone has the right to say whatever they like. They should also expect the consequences of what they say.
I'm totally against violence of any sort. I'm against war too.

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Cthulu, you're going to have to wait until I get to a PC to search. To me this isn't as big a deal as it seems to be to you guys.

Maybe that's because you're not the one standing accused of censorship and bias. Tell me, is this a special service you're extending just for us, or do you often lose teeth in real life?

We're all guilty of bias at some point. Censorship can be good. As I said above.. I know my limits, and judge yours.
I hope you weren't promoting violence there stim?