RE: Why did god allow people to be born after the fall ?
November 7, 2017 at 5:05 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2017 at 5:08 pm by SteveII.)
(November 7, 2017 at 3:25 pm)Harry Nevis Wrote:Your statement is just a contradiction. He does not know because he has seen you do it, he knows because he knows what you would freely choose give circumstances x y and z. Important in this knowledge is he knows true counterfactuals--what you would have done if x, y or z were different.(November 7, 2017 at 2:59 pm)SteveII Wrote: No, free will created sin. Sin is the absence of good. Just like no one created darkness.
Foreknowledge in no way means control. The fact that you won't choose differently does not mean you couldn't have. God simply knows what every free creature would choose and would not choose (counterfactuals) to do in any given circumstances. There are different theological perspectives and I am arguing/answering from my own.
If he knows I will repent on my deathbed, and I don't, either he didn't know or he was wrong.
Since god created good,and he (and he admits it) created evil, he is responsible for the existence of sin.
Sin is the absence of good only to you guys. It doesn't exist outside if the bible.
God could not admit creating evil because by definition it is the deprivation of good. How can someone create a negative? You are barking up the wrong tree. Yes, he is responsible for the possibility of sin, but you are just complaining about the definition of free will.
Exactly. So we are the ones that get to define it.
(November 7, 2017 at 4:48 pm)alpha male Wrote:(November 7, 2017 at 4:36 pm)Abaddon_ire Wrote: Because there is no evidence that any of the countless thousands of claimed gods have ever existed.
Why ask for that which cannot be provided?
Ask the atheists, as whenever one of them starts a thread on some biblical topic, it's only a matter of time until another one comes in and asks for evidence of god's existence.
Always! That's why I cut and paste:
A quick reminder of definitions:
Evidence refers to pieces of information or facts that help us establish the truth of something. Proof is a conclusion about the truth of something after analyzing the evidence. Evidence is suggestive of a conclusion. Proof is concrete and conclusive. Proof can have different thresholds. Anywhere from more likely than not (preponderance of the evidence), to beyond a reasonable doubt, to absolute. These are all arrived at by considering evidence.
So, to say that I have no evidence is simply wrong. What you mean is that in your opinion, it is not proof. That's fine, I don't care what your opinion is.
The evidence that I believe that supports my belief (another opinion) is below:
1. Person of Jesus is compelling.
2. The NT describes actual events including the miracles, life, death and resurrection of Jesus.
3. God works in people's lives today--changing people on the inside as well as the occurrence of miracles.
4. The natural theology arguments:
a. God is the best explanation why anything at all exists.
b. God is the best explanation of the origin of the universe.
c. God is the best explanation of the fine-tuning of the universe for intelligent life.
d. God is the best explanation of intentional states of consciousness.
e. God is the best explanation of objective moral values and duties.
Since you cannot 'prove' that any of these are falsely held beliefs, my conclusion (opinion) that God exists is rationale. The amount of evidence meets my personal threshold for proof that God exists.
