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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 7:45 pm
The solution is just an un-corrupt government that does not run on money and corruption.
Why can't government make more companies run like Ben and Jerry's, we agree they had a nice business model.
Don't horde profits and send profits back to the employees/consumers.
This seems like a variation of a co-op business.
I don't buy the argument that government favors "something". It sure does now, but you CAN have a neutral government, but most people choose to believe this is fairy-tail land. By neutral I mean catering to the majority of citizens, you will have crazies on all sides, but if you cater to the majority of your population that is the best you can do.
It is my thinking that a public servant should live like the middle class, they serve us, they should not be above us. You can reduce governments power.
We prop our government figures up in the US, and we just think they are better than us, when they are not, anyone of us could do most of their jobs, to think they are special or something is crazy, we are all the same flesh and blood, cells, and atoms.
Cut all government elected officials to the median pay of like $35,000, and then see how they vote and act. Make lobbying illegal.Take money out of government decision making. All policy is through debate and rational arguments, or use a scientific method type of system for policy creation. Drug test too, like the rest of us. See how many of those bastards would want to stay in their positions.
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Honestly, it wouldn't matter if public service was pro bono, the money isn't in the salary.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 8:48 pm
(December 27, 2011 at 8:38 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Honestly, it wouldn't matter if public service was pro bono, the money isn't in the salary.
I know this  .
But at least it would show some initiative to get the money out of the system.
They should have to live a very modest lifestyle, as to not be influenced by money. No insider trading like they do now, no "trips" with lobbyist. Lobbying should be illegal in many aspects, as well as campaign reform. We have to start somewhere.
I know I would. Id wave the salary down to a minimum wage, just to make a point.
"...the illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world."
- Carl Sagan
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Now there's an idea, tie the salary of lawmakers to minimum wage and make their financial statements public...cost of running for office..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 9:11 pm
I think that's possibly a very bad idea. Salary should reflect the importance of the job, and governing is an important job, so it should have a good salary. People who go for the job should be the people who are most qualified, but also who are doing it for the people, and not for themselves. So a better idea would be to set the salary at somewhere at average to (just) above average wage; it won't make the people who run for government rich, but it won't leave them with hardly any money for what they do either.
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 9:22 pm
(This post was last modified: December 27, 2011 at 9:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
So is taking out the garbage. Or working in the water san dept. Minimum wage is good enough for that, it's good enough for governance. I wouldn't mind it being average either, if we did away with "terms". Let them scramble like the rest of us, worried about their jobs on a daily basis. If we're going to even attempt some sort of parity pay is only one of the many sweetheart deals they've signed into law for themselves. Hey, there's another one. Maybe they shouldn't be able to vote on their own pay? Unless they want to extend that courtesy to us as well?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 9:26 pm
(December 27, 2011 at 9:11 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I think that's possibly a very bad idea. Salary should reflect the importance of the job, and governing is an important job, so it should have a good salary. People who go for the job should be the people who are most qualified, but also who are doing it for the people, and not for themselves. So a better idea would be to set the salary at somewhere at average to (just) above average wage; it won't make the people who run for government rich, but it won't leave them with hardly any money for what they do either.
Sure, but greed is greed.
The less a government employee is paid, the more likely someone with a fistfull of cash is going to convince said employee to see things his way.
I'm not arguing that government employees should be paid exhorberant amounts of money, but I'm saying that the power of government is going to attract corruption regardless of their paycheck.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 9:27 pm
That's really the crux of it, the only way to take corruption out of government is to take the money and power out of govt, not really plausible.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 9:37 pm
(December 27, 2011 at 9:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: That's really the crux of it, the only way to take corruption out of government is to take the money and power out of govt, not really plausible.
well, if you give politicians the right incentives combined with the proper checks and balances from other branches of government and democratic elections, transparancy, term limits, and strict regulations on elections and the flow of money to and fro the private sector, it can help a lot.
All methods are essentially temporary, but that's why the good lord bestowed his feeble slaves with *clap!* REVOLUCION!
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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RE: Ben & Jerry's - Good Guys
December 27, 2011 at 10:33 pm
The other problem with reducing the amount of money that people in government get is that if you do so, the only people who will be able to safely take the position will be people who already have money (i.e. the rich). The whole point of a democratic government is that anyone should be able to get elected, not just the rich.
I'm on your side on this one Rhythm; I don't want money to be affecting politics as much as you do. I just think reducing the pay of politicians to minimum wage will cause more problems. You really can't compare the job of governing to that of the work of garbage collection or water sanitation; people in government need to make vital decisions that affect the lives of millions every day, and they need to plan policy that can affect the shape of the nation. I do agree that they shouldn't be able to vote on their wage though.
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