Help with a Christian girlfriend

[ElDinero]

Regarding homosexuality : sexual orientation is determined
at birth and is not something one chooses therefore.

I disagree with this statement. Please provide evidence for it.

Don't you feel the slightest bit of embarrassment at asking someone to provide proof for something when you claim that homosexuality is some kind of gateway drug to other acts you consider to be sordid?

Practice what you preach, kiddo.

[Minimalist]

He's a jesus freak, El Din.

False promises, exaggerated claims and unsupported statements are all they do.

[Napoléon]

Hello There, heres a little help from another christian.
ive broken your issues down into two topics, biblical reason and common sense reason (since your aren't a christian)

I'm breaking your arguments down into ONE topic, it's called 'wrong'.

Homosexuality is wrong
---------------------------
Biblical reason: Repeated over and over again in both testaments. The bible calls homosexuality an "abomination"
Common sense reason: 1. The pervasive act of homosexuality is a stepping stone to much worse sexual acts.
2. Homosexuality prevents pro-creation
3. Homosexuality highly increases chances of catching a disease

Bible: You can't bum your neighbour but you can keep him as a slave.

Common Sense:
1. Bullshit. Show me one single study which supports your preposterous claims. Also please define what you think are 'worse sexual acts'.
2. If the whole world becomes gay, WHERE DO THE BABIES COME FROM? This is essentially your point right? Can you not see how completely and utterly stupid this is? Besides, slowing down population growth in a way in which offers no harm to other people cannot be a bad thing in the overpopulated world we are living in.
3. Again prove it. Show me some facts to back up this absurd claim.

Drinking is wrong
---------------------------
Biblical reason: Not much. All of the major biblical figures consumed alcohol. Drunkenness and addiction is said to be wrong, but not alcohol itself.
Common sense reason: Drinking can easily elevate into an addiction, an addiction that can destroy your relationship and bank account.

Bible: Jesus was a raging piss head who threw a mahoosive party on his last night before he went and got put up on a cross.

Common Sense: You can get addicted to food, you can get fat. You can die from getting too fat. Let's say, NOO FOOOD!
^
Retarded huh? Certainly NOT common sense.
It's not about drinking, it's about moderation. You said yourself alcohol is not wrong. Besides what people do with their money is their business and if it ruins relationships then that is down to their own faulty will and not booze.

Divorce is wrong
---------------------------
Biblical reason: When you make the covenant of marriage before god, you accept responsibility for your wife. You can't quite on a responsibility. (It should be noted that divorce is excused in the bible under certain conditions)
Common sense reason: Divorces are messy, unpleasant affairs. The psychological affects it can have on children is devastating. Ultimately, it is usually easier to just tough it out through a rough patch.

Bible: Putting on a ring and saying a few words means you love your wife forever blah blah blah.

Common Sense: Things change. People change. Mistakes are made. Sometimes two people think they love each other one moment but they can fall out and hate each other down the road. Keeping together two people for the sake of 'marriage' is unfair on those two people. Oh and don't bring children into the equation, forcing people who are at each others throats together under the same roof can be more damaging to a child who simply has his parents move out and get on with life like the adults they are. The seperation of a married couple does not mean they love their children any less. Forcing a child to sit there and watch their supposedly 'loving mummy and daddy' argue all the time can be far more damaging than having them simply separate.

Premarital sex is wrong
---------------------------
Biblical reasoning: God says to remain pure of heart, mind, and soul. The bible says that sex is a beautiful act that should be saved for someone you've made a devotion to.
Common sense: I dont need to tell you how many lives have been destroyed by an unwanted pregnancy, or STDs. This can be many times more destructive in youth years. Innocence should be cherished. Would you want your children having sex with other children? Sex always makes relationships more complicated.

Bible: Sex advice from a bunch of asexuals.

Common Sense:
This is a choice which people deserve the right to make for themselves. STD's and unwanted pregnancy are not down to pre-marital sex. They are down to idiots who don't use proper protection. How about a 16 year old girl getting married, they can have sex right? Would you class them as a child or an adult?
Also could you please elaborate on how sex makes a relationship more complicated. Sounds like steaming turd to me.

And there you have it; a few reasons as to why your girlfriend believes what she does. If you would like more, or would like me to elaborate, please ask.

All of this is fucking pointless and entirely besides the point of the OP.

[twocompulsive]

You will not get insults from me cornflake
as I do not believe in them since once employed
indicate the argument is no more. So let me engage
with you more respectfully than my fellow non believers

You have no idea how much it says that there is an atheist willing to discuss his beliefs You show that atheists can be sensible civilized people

Regarding homosexuality : sexual orientation is determined
at birth and is not something one chooses therefore

I disagree with this statement Please provide evidence for it

The physical act of sodomy is not exclusive to gays and many straight men engage in it when having intercourse with straight women

Sodomy is condemned biblically either way although sodomy in the bible means any ultra taboo sexually pervasive act
And although it is true that straight couples can commit sodomy homosexuals have too by simple being homosexual

Is true that it is not conducive to procreation but this would only be an issue if actually pre dominant amongst the general population but it is not however

Not now no. Give it another 400 years

Evidence indicates that there
is a correlation between the level
of testosterone a woman receives during
pregnancy and the sexual orientation of the child
[ a boy exposed to low levels more likely to be gay : a
boy exposed to high levels more likely to be straight : and
the same for girls ] No one chooses their sexuality : did you choose
yours ? But if you could why would you opt for homosexuality given that
society has been and even now - though better - homophobic ? Why would
anyone choose that ? You quote The Bible but only Christians are obliged to follow
it : I am not a Christian any more. Though I do believe in certain tenets of Scripture : The
Golden Rule : The Seven Commandments : The Sermon On The Mount : The Parables : though
I interpret these as articles of humanitarianism and not religious doctrine. What makes you think that the
world s population will become pre dominantly homosexual in four centuries time - have any evidence for this ?
Even if it is true : why would that be such a problem anyway especially given the rate of rapid growth as it currently
is ? Would it not be advantageous economically and socially ? And do you make any distinction between active and passive
homosexuals or is ihat simply academic ? In other words is it just the sexual act that you object to or being homosexual per se ?

[Cinjin]

WHAT THE HELL does this thread have to do with Homosexuality?!?!



BRING IT BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE! Flake ... read the damn rules or go to the Gauntlet.

[ElDinero]

Original topic has been addressed as much as it realistically can be. Let the thread branch naturally, surely?

[organiccornflake]

I'm breaking your arguments down into ONE topic, it's called 'wrong'.


This should be interesting

Bible: You can't bum your neighbour but you can keep him as a slave.

I would send you to this link if you wish to learn about slavery and the bible. But for the sake of the argument, lets stay on topic.

Common Sense:
1. Bullshit. Show me one single study which supports your preposterous claims. Also please define what you think are 'worse sexual acts'.

Orgies, violence, anything that is not a physical expression of love between two people... Is it not common sense that sexual perversion is done in steps? Did you hold hands or kiss first in your life? Did you kiss or touch a woman's breasts first? Did you touch a woman's breast or have sex first? Did you have vaginal intercourse or anal intercourse first? Did you have sex normally or choke her during sex first? The answer to all of these question is 99% of the time the former.

And as for sources, here you are.
This one is good, and this one is somewhat biased, but done by professionals. Oh! This one is good too. You can't forget this one either. (Sidenote: These were just a few of the ones off of google's first page. I believe the one written by the CDC would probably be the most reliable source about the subject in the country)

2. If the whole world becomes gay, WHERE DO THE BABIES COME FROM? This is essentially your point right? Can you not see how completely and utterly stupid this is? Besides, slowing down population growth in a way in which offers no harm to other people cannot be a bad thing in the overpopulated world we are living in.

No. Thats not my argument. That would be silly. My argument is that it robs them of parent-hood.

3. Again prove it. Show me some facts to back up this absurd claim.

I included my facts in the above block of sources. Google it if you want.

Bible: Jesus was a raging piss head who threw a mahoosive party on his last night before he went and got put up on a cross.

Is this just to try to make me mad? Or what? I dont see the point.

Common Sense: You can get addicted to food, you can get fat. You can die from getting too fat. Let's say, NOO FOOOD!
^
Retarded huh? Certainly NOT common sense.
It's not about drinking, it's about moderation. You said yourself alcohol is not wrong. Besides what people do with their money is their business and if it ruins relationships then that is down to their own faulty will and not booze.

You do understand that I was saying alcohol is okay, right? I just gave the poster a probable reason why his girlfriend is against it. Check the context of what I say before you attack me over it.


Bible: Putting on a ring and saying a few words means you love your wife forever blah blah blah.

Huh???? That doesn't make any sense at all. Sarcasm isn't funny unless its mocking something I actually said. The bible mentions nothing of a ring as a requirement, just that you make an oath before god to remain loyal to each other. You really technically don't even need a minister to do it (that is just for legality reasons). You could be totaly alone with your bride, make a vow to her and god, and you would be married in god's eyes.


Common Sense: Things change. People change. Mistakes are made. Sometimes two people think they love each other one moment but they can fall out and hate each other down the road. Keeping together two people for the sake of 'marriage' is unfair on those two people. Oh and don't bring children into the equation, forcing people who are at each others throats together under the same roof can be more damaging to a child who simply has his parents move out and get on with life like the adults they are. The seperation of a married couple does not mean they love their children any less.

It should be noted that divorce is excused in the bible for a few things...
How is it not be common sense that breaking a vow to your wife be considered a sin? Is it not clearly wrong to break an oath? You swear to take your bride forever, do you not? See, the bible believes in keeping promises, unlike humans.

Forcing a child to sit there and watch their supposedly 'loving mummy and daddy' argue all the time can be far more damaging than having them simply separate.


I disagree with this statement, from personal experience. So you will never convince me otherwise.

Bible: Sex advice from a bunch of asexuals.

Read the thing you are attacking before you make a statement. I would start in the book titled "Song of Salomon" in the old testament. It is all about sex. The bible promotes sex, and actualy commands us to have it in love and compassion with someone we are devoted to.

Common Sense:
This is a choice which people deserve the right to make for themselves. STD's and unwanted pregnancy are not down to pre-marital sex. They are down to idiots who don't use proper protection.

So your suggesting that an unwanted pregnancy isn't much more life-destroying to a teenage girl, than to a married woman? To say this is simply preposterous. Its a risk either way; its just the unmarried one that has much more to lose.

How about a 16 year old girl getting married, they can have sex right? Would you class them as a child or an adult?

Legally a child, obviously. But yes, that's okay.

Also could you please elaborate on how sex makes a relationship more complicated. Sounds like steaming turd to me.

Personal experience, so no, I will not elaborate.

All of this is fucking pointless and entirely besides the point of the OP.

Yes; actually it was. He asked why she believed what she believed and gave a list of topics. I responded to each topic with the biblical reason why she believes it (as she was christian), and a plausible common sense reason as to why she would believe the way she does.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yes indeed, the song of solomon, about two un-married lovers........sneaking off in the night to bang the stable boy? What's next? Anal sex and orgies..repeat your own slippery slope garbage from this point on.

Actually, there you go Dan, read her the song of solomon and all of your troubles will vanish.

[ElDinero]

Ok organic, so you don't understand what 'common sense' is and you're a fucking idiot. Why didn't you just say that in the first place and save us the trouble?

[KichigaiNeko]

Like a 'snowflake' quickly gone...