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A Book?
#21
RE: A Book?
(May 5, 2009 at 4:28 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: It isn't my definition. The NTS fallacy applies to someone that defines something and then abuses the definition to widen it. This doesn't apply.
It is very much your definition, as we have shown repeatedly that simple dictionaries (and public thought) disagree with you.

The No True Scotsman fallacy applies in your case. You do not have to state a definition in the first place if the definition is obvious by the person committing the fallacy.

For instance, if you were to say "Catholics are not Christians because they pray to saints" then you would be committing the NTS because you have redefined the word "Christian" to include a clause about not praying to saints. Unless the definition includes such a clause, you are redefining it on the fly, thus creating the fallacy.

Likewise, saying "Murderers cannot be Christians because they break one of the 10 commandments" is a NTS. There is no definition of Christianity that says murderers are excluded (in fact most people say that if you repent your sins and accept Jesus Christ you will go to Heaven, etc).

Now an example of the above which is not a fallacy is this:

"People who do not believe in Jesus Christ are not Christians". The definition of a Christian includes a clause about believing in Jesus Christ, ergo the fallacy is not made.
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#22
RE: A Book?
(May 5, 2009 at 4:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: For instance, if you were to say "Catholics are not Christians because they pray to saints" then you would be committing the NTS because you have redefined the word "Christian" to include a clause about not praying to saints. Unless the definition includes such a clause, you are redefining it on the fly, thus creating the fallacy.

Nonsense. Here's why:

A 'Christian' wouldn't be following Christ if he prayed to saints, if Christ expressly forbade it. Christ described what was right and wrong to him, so to follow him you need to do stuff he does. There's the definition and the clause.

I wouldn't ever say that Catholics weren't Christians BY praying to saints. I would say that Catholics were committing a non Christian act, as would a Christian be doing if they did the same thing.

(May 5, 2009 at 4:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Likewise, saying "Murderers cannot be Christians because they break one of the 10 commandments" is a NTS. There is no definition of Christianity that says murderers are excluded (in fact most people say that if you repent your sins and accept Jesus Christ you will go to Heaven, etc).

Exactly so, for the reason stated above.

(May 5, 2009 at 4:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: "People who do not believe in Jesus Christ are not Christians". The definition of a Christian includes a clause about believing in Jesus Christ, ergo the fallacy is not made.

So where did I go wrong again?
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#23
RE: A Book?
(May 5, 2009 at 4:48 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Nonsense. Here's why:

A 'Christian' wouldn't be following Christ if he prayed to saints, if Christ expressly forbade it. Christ described what was right and wrong to him, so to follow him you need to do stuff he does. There's the definition and the clause.
And as I've said time and time again, this isn't a definition of Christianity. A Christians is someone who believes in Jesus and in most cases accepts him as their lord and saviour. Many people are Christians and commit acts that would be considered deplorable by Jesus, but this doesn't make them not Christians. Bad Christians maybe, but it doesn't negate the belief.

You argued previously that Catholics were not Christians, and you gave some faulty reasons for why. If you are going to count doing anything that Jesus said not to as tantamount to being ejected from Christianity, then you yourself are not a Christian. I am sure you have done things that Jesus said not to (i.e. lied, stolen). You have certainly been fallacious and disingenuous on these forums, ergo I turn your entire argument around to you. Prove to me that you are a Christian by your own definition (i.e. not doing any acts that Jesus preached against) or accept that the definition of a Christian is varied and depends on precious little.
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#24
RE: A Book?
Well it has been fun but it's dinner time here and I am going to get something to eat.Frodo we will pick this up tomorrow,whatever this is.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

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#25
RE: A Book?
Cool. Catch you then Wink
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#26
RE: A Book?
frodo Wrote:A 'Christian' wouldn't be following Christ if he prayed to saints, if Christ expressly forbade it. Christ described what was right and wrong to him, so to follow him you need to do stuff he does. There's the definition and the clause.

Exodus:
4. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

-------------------------

Deuteronomy:
8. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

-------------------------

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

-------------------------

Why do you built churches, draw and paint images and write books?

Why is nature not enough?

Is it not forbidden.
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#27
RE: A Book?
I am going to take your premise one step further gmark
Exodus 20:4
4.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Numbers 21:8,9
8And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

As you can see here is one of the bibles many contradictions.First God commands them to not build any images and then when they are beset with a plague of serpents God tells them to build a serpent of Brass.Later on in the scriptures the serpent had to be destroyed because the Hebrews began worshipping the serpent statue.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

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#28
RE: A Book?
Quote:As you can see here is one of the bibles many contradictions.First God commands them to not build any images and then when they are beset with a plague of serpents God tells them to build a serpent of Brass.Later on in the scriptures the serpent had to be destroyed because the Hebrews began worshipping the serpent statue.

Sounds like God was playing with them Big Grin
- Science is not trying to create an answer like religion, it tries to find an answer.
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#29
RE: A Book?
Honestly giff I could do this all day.I am pretty familiar with scripture and can specifically pin point contradictions in it.I should start a thread on this shit lol.
There is nothing people will not maintain when they are slaves to superstition

http://chatpilot-godisamyth.blogspot.com/

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#30
RE: A Book?
When the Hebrews began worshipping the statue they moved from God focus to idol worship. The distinction is very clear.

g-mark Wrote:Why do you built churches, draw and paint images and write books?

Why is nature not enough?

Is it not forbidden.

A church isn't the building, it's the people. You're allowed to be inspired but there's a common sense limit defined with such guidance as idolatory. Idolatory is destructive to faith. Nature is enough.
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