Jaysus effin' Christ!! Santorum on abortion due to rape

[Erinome]

Tiberius would do well to remember that someone without a uterus can fuck off with their pro-life opinions on this matter, no matter how moralistic their reasons.

[reverendjeremiah]

Tiberius would do well to remember that someone without a uterus can fuck off with their pro-life opinions on this matter, no matter how moralistic their reasons.

Oh yeah, I dont have a uterus and I concur 100%. I do feel that everyone should have a right to speak their mind about it.

Example: Im a boyfriend and I knock up my girlfriend on accident. She doesnt want the baby but I want us to get married and have a family. I should have a discussion with her and try to help her see it from my angle.

In the end, it is the womans choice.

It also does seem uneven, because the woman can keep or get rid of the baby regardless of the man, but viewing it as anything other than the womans choice greatly complicates the matter.

[Rokcet Scientist]

BTW, if you value your privacy this may be of interest.

[Faith No More]

Are you going to hijack every thread with that? You already started your own, so leave that disucssion in that one.

[Shell B]

Tiberius would do well to remember that someone without a uterus can fuck off with their pro-life opinions on this matter, no matter how moralistic their reasons.

Whoops. I'm going to disagree and piss people off. I'm pro-life. Yeah, pro-life in that way that I think people have a right to life. Do I think people should be forced to carry to term? No. However, I do not think that all instances of abortion are that black and white. A man should have some say in it, assuming he came about his fatherhood in a legal, non-violent way. Hey, if the girl wants an abortion and the father is willing to let her sign over parental rights and raise the kid, maybe there should be a discussion. At any rate, the bottom line is that everyone has a right to an opinion. While I do not disagree with abortion, it has to be said that some other opinions actually have very sound reasoning backing them up. A father has a sentimental right to his offspring, same as a mother. A fetus may just be a fetus to me or you, but it is really viewed as a human by others. I would feel pretty uncomfortable about it too if I did not understand the basic mechanics of fetal development. Anyway, I have never seen Adrian write anything that is the type of "Pro-life" that we all so hate. I believe his position lies in father's rights, which I think are greatly ignored.

[Doubting Thomas]

What if the situation is reversed and the father wants her to have an abortion or doesn't want to be a father, but the girl is intent on keeping the baby? I've often wondered how fair it is that he should have to pay child support in that kind of situation. However, if this were the case then all a guy would have to do to get out of paying is to claim he didn't want the child in the first place.

[Shell B]

What if the situation is reversed and the father wants her to have an abortion or doesn't want to be a father, but the girl is intent on keeping the baby? I've often wondered how fair it is that he should have to pay child support in that kind of situation. However, if this were the case then all a guy would have to do to get out of paying is to claim he didn't want the child in the first place.

An agreement should be in paper. The man should be able to file, but he gives up all parental rights, in that case. Actually, men can sign over parental rights as it is.

Dads do get the shit end of the stick. The difference between my child's biological mother's child support (she has no custody) and the child support my brother and law pays with partial custody is $600 a month for one child around the same age in the same state. It is a very biased system.

[frankiej]

BTW, if you value your privacy this may be of interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bIbxCBBJNk

[reverendjeremiah]

Im going to be debating Tiberius on abortion today. I will be defending pro-choice all the way up to birth and Tiberius will obviously be picking and chosing what he thinks is acceptable, and what he thinks should be banned.

correction:

I will be defending pro-choice all the way up to birth and Tiberius will be opposing it

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It is a very biased system.

Would you support a woman being able to chose wether a man she is having sex with can be sterile or not?

What if the woman wants a baby with that man, but he got fixed in the past? Should she be able to force him to become fertile again?

On the opposite end, should a woman who wishes to not become pregnant have her say so in wether a man can be sterilized or not?

Its not as biased as most people make it seem.

If a man can force a woman to carry a baby she DOESNT want to term for the mans benefit, then clearly it would also be just as fair to allow the woman to force a man to become sterile if she wishes not to become pregnant.

[Shell B]

Would you support a woman being able to chose wether a man she is having sex with can be sterile or not?

What if the woman wants a baby with that man, but he got fixed in the past? Should she be able to force him to become fertile again?

On the opposite end, should a woman who wishes to not become pregnant have her say so in wether a man can be sterilized or not?

Its not as biased as most people make it seem.

If a man can force a woman to carry a baby she DOESNT want to term for the mans benefit, then clearly it would also be just as fair to allow the woman to force a man to become sterile if she wishes not to become pregnant.

In the politest tone possible, did you think about any of that as it relates to what we are talking about before you wrote it?

A. When I wrote biased, I was clearly talking about the court system and how it handles child custody and support.

B. Sterility has nothing to do with existing pregnancies. We are not talking about birth control, we are talking about pregnancy.

C. A woman can opt for birth control, so she already has a say in whether she can get pregnant or not.

D. A woman already has a say on who she fucks. Therefore, if she wants children, she can choose a man who is not sterile.

E. Never, in any way shape or form, did I say a person should be able to force another person to have any kind of surgery. To even suggest that is in some way equal to the argument I presented is fucking ludicrous.

The bottom line is that the only part of child rearing and making that is the sole responsibility of the mother is carrying the child. If she does not want to keep the child, what is the problem with the man keeping it, if he wants to. If I got pregnant -- which I never have -- and my significant other wanted to keep the baby, I did not and there was no forseeable burden to my health, I would certainly carry it, if he agreed that I would not have to raise it. Of course, that would depend on a number of other factors, but why should that discourse be completely off of the table? Seriously, a womb is not some secret magical thing. It's a fucking organ. It doesn't make someone special or above reproach. A woman can get an abortion and be wrong! Again, I am pro-choice. That doesn't make every woman who gets an abortion right. Some of them are fuckwits who use it as birth control. Some of them do it to get back at their spouses. Oh, and I never said anyone should be forced to do anything.