Democracy, religion, women and equality. Justice demands affirmative action.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Positive discrimination is not equality.

Support of capitalism is not equality either.

No it is not. (tu quoque I think)

However,there is a practical difference: I have pretty much always benefited from capitalism. I would not benefit from affirmative action,unless they accepted atheists as a disadvantaged minority.


As is usually the case,my objection is based on self interest rather than sentiment or non some non existent absolute moral principle.

[Aegrus]

Democracy, religion, women and equality. Justice demands affirmative action.

Democracy, Religion and Secularism all talks a great line of freedom and equality for all. Our Western democracies and Religions preach this wonderful line; while at the same time forcing our women to walk behind our men and denying women true equality. True democracy and religions are then a sham. We have no working model, political or religious with true equality. We all contribute to this hypocrisy.

We point the finger at the East and their lack of equality with scorn, as we should; while ignoring the fact that we in the West are not doing as we preach or walking our talk. We men have yet to give our women the justice and equality they deserve. Our women have also been delinquent in their social duty by not being more forceful in their demands for equality and justice. Women lead the list of those that have historically been oppressed, thanks mainly to religions, and democracies and religions needs to acknowledge this real fact. They must enact affirmative action to be seen as working toward a truly just society.

It is time for men and women to recognize that what women have suffered enough discrimination and denigration without just cause long enough. We as societies have enacted affirmative action laws for the oppressed before. I think we should admit to the fact we have truly oppressed women and initiate new laws to move equality for women at a faster pace.

Both men and women have ignored basic social justice and we should all be ashamed of ourselves. You will feel this shame if you, male or female, have an ounce of social responsibility. We have a duty not only to ourselves but also to the coming generations.

Justice delayed is justice denied. Justice demands that we act and our women and female children are crying out for equality.

Affirmative action for women should be placed higher our social justice agendas. Both at the political level and religious level.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

See the above bold, isn't this where it started, kind of an ownership, not saying that is what you meant, it's part of what has been instilled into us.

This. . . is actually a thought provoking reply from Godschild. Studies support him in this by stating that most men regard women as objects. I don't know what causes it, and I don't like it, but It's the society we seem to have.

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-19/healt...=PM:HEALTH

[KichigaiNeko]

Yep. Wholesome religious society based on this god he trusts.

[Aegrus]

Giving one group an extra advantage does not fix the roots of the problem. For every disadvantaged person affirmative action makes equal, it makes another person victim to the same disadvantage others have suffered. As I believe all people should be born equal, it is not a solution for me to only reverse the discriminated and privileged groups.

The roots of the problem, of course, are sexism, homophobia, and racism. These must be addressed. I don't want to simply kick the can further down the road.
I don't know how to correct them, but further segregating people by assigning them advantages based on their birth is not the way.

[Greatest I am]

Giving one group an extra advantage does not fix the roots of the problem. For every disadvantaged person affirmative action makes equal, it makes another person victim to the same disadvantage others have suffered. As I believe all people should be born equal, it is not a solution for me to only reverse the discriminated and privileged groups.

The roots of the problem, of course, are sexism, homophobia, and racism. These must be addressed. I don't want to simply kick the can further down the road.
I don't know how to correct them, but further segregating people by assigning them advantages based on their birth is not the way.

Bigots are made, not born.

First. Affirmative action works quite well in Canada.

Second. Imagine what the U S would look like if affirmative action had not ended segregation.

You are right in that it is our character that must change to get rid of bigots and I see affirmative action as a great way to change the consciousness of bigots.

Regards
DL

[reverendjeremiah]

Giving one group an extra advantage does not fix the roots of the problem. For every disadvantaged person affirmative action makes equal, it makes another person victim to the same disadvantage others have suffered. As I believe all people should be born equal, it is not a solution for me to only reverse the discriminated and privileged groups.

The roots of the problem, of course, are sexism, homophobia, and racism. These must be addressed. I don't want to simply kick the can further down the road.
I don't know how to correct them, but further segregating people by assigning them advantages based on their birth is not the way.

So, basically, you are saying we should get rid of every race relation act in America, and instead "address the issue" of, I suppose, how bad sexism and racism is.

I thought the civil rights act addressed the issue quite fairly myself.

How else do you suggest that we "address the issue" without allowing minorities to slip back down the economic slide at the same time?

[Perhaps]

Perhaps instead of including demographics on applications for college or employment, only the necessary aspects of acceptance are included such as GPA, community service, etc.. It isn't right that the individual who is more intelligent doesn't get into a specific school or get the specific job simply because there is a quota to meet for the number of minorities which must be accepted.

No matter how you say it, affirmative action is positive discrimination. Equality can never be born from this mentality.

[reverendjeremiah]

Perhaps instead of including demographics on applications for college or employment, only the necessary aspects of acceptance are included such as GPA, community service, etc.. It isn't right that the individual who is more intelligent doesn't get into a specific school or get the specific job simply because there is a quota to meet for the number of minorities which must be accepted.

No matter how you say it, affirmative action is positive discrimination. Equality can never be born from this mentality.

Then come up with a practical replcaement for the civil rights act that does not allow positive descrimination on the flip side of the coin.

When you come up with a good alternative to what is in place now, then I will lend an ear. Until then, I will oppose you. Allowing racism to exist causes economic strife upon minoroties.

This is a fact.

now, come up with a legitimate fix for this problem other than "just get rid of the legislation we have right now".

If you are truly an open minded intellectual, as you claim, then you will come up with something just as practical that fixes the problem NOW, and not something like "education" that may take several generations to become effective.

[Perhaps]

I thought I provided a 'fix'?

instead of including demographics on applications for college or employment, only the necessary aspects of acceptance are included such as GPA, community service, etc..

Your tone in discussions is often angry. I don't say things to fight, I say them to promote the discussion.

[Godscreated]

And you cling to this pathetic excuse?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-31.700147,115.797804

No! your attitude is pathetic, you have no idea how I fill about this subject, shame on you for judging.