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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Sorry, but it simply does not follow that giving a father rights over the life of his unborn child would lead to those rights somehow superseding those of the mother. It should be a joint decision if there is going to be that kind of choice. Of course, I don't believe parents have the right to kill (or allow the killing of) their children in the first place.
As for types of abortion, if the mother's life is in danger, then yes, abortion should be an option. Not sure where I stand on rape; such a matter is delicate, as are all matters that involve the loss if an innocent's life.
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:50 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 12:08 pm)Doubting Thomas Wrote: When I was in England, the one phrase I really just couldn't get over was "clotted cream." Just doesn't sound appetizing at all.
I'd say the same about jerk chicken but they are both fucking nice.
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:51 pm
I'm willing to try it, but maybe someone else should buy it for themselves first and let me just have a nibble.
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:53 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 12:51 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: I'm willing to try it, but maybe someone else should buy it for themselves first and let me just have a nibble.
Are we talking about clotted cream or jerk chicken? Either way I'm sure I'd let you have a little nosh 
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:54 pm
Nap, if you get me started with food and innuendo, you know I'll render you useless for the rest of the night.
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 12:55 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 12:54 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: Nap, if you get me started with food and innuendo, you know I'll render you useless for the rest of the night.
LOL. I really don't mind.
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 1:07 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 4:24 am)Chuff Wrote: Quite a fitting article - even here there are forces constantly at work, urging us to put back on the cloak of ignorance
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17021831
Interesting.
Quote:Religion is being "sidelined, marginalised and downgraded in the public sphere", Conservative co-chairwoman Baroness Warsi wrote in an article for the Daily Telegraph.
The Muslim peer said Europe needed to become "more confident and more comfortable in its Christianity".
..."She is not Christian herself but nevertheless she sees religion as a good thing - it doesn't matter what religion as long as there's some religion and that's better than no religion.
I've said before that it seems like when the big bad atheists come along, Christians and Muslims will suddenly forget their differences and rush to each other's defense. This article spotlights a prime example of this behavior.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 1:46 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 8:42 am)Tiberius Wrote: @MrSkeptic: What do you mean by "person"? The embryo is a human (genetically speaking) from conception. If you support any kind of abortion, you support the killing of innocent humans, and there is no getting around that fact. I'm not holding it against you if that is really what you support, but I personally cannot.
I guess I was trying to argue my opinion that I don't believe an embryo is the early stages of development can be classed as a person. Certainly not before the brain and nervous system are beginning to form. That's generally why abortion laws don't allow termination after x number of months (not sure exactly what the limit is in the UK) when such development has occurred.
However like I say that is just my opinion and I totally respect yours and where you are coming from. I have many friends who are equally split on the particulars (and as I also said its certainly a very emotive issue!). I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one 
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true - Carl Sagan
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 1:50 pm
(February 14, 2012 at 1:46 pm)MrSkeptic Wrote: (February 14, 2012 at 8:42 am)Tiberius Wrote: @MrSkeptic: What do you mean by "person"? The embryo is a human (genetically speaking) from conception. If you support any kind of abortion, you support the killing of innocent humans, and there is no getting around that fact. I'm not holding it against you if that is really what you support, but I personally cannot.
I guess I was trying to argue my opinion that I don't believe an embryo is the early stages of development can be classed as a person. Certainly not before the brain and nervous system are beginning to form. That's generally why abortion laws don't allow termination after x number of months (not sure exactly what the limit is in the UK) when such development has occurred.
However like I say that is just my opinion and I totally respect yours and where you are coming from. I have many friends who are equally split on the particulars (and as I also said its certainly a very emotive issue!). I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one
It is sentience we respect and have moral obligations toward, not genetics.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Come to England
February 14, 2012 at 1:57 pm
Quote "It is sentience we respect and have moral obligations toward, not genetics."
Yes that is what I was trying to say, when the embryo develops awareness, is when I consider it to become a "person".
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true - Carl Sagan
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