Bible contradictions?

[Welsh cake]

What kind of "almighty god" or "divinely-inspired religious text" needs Chipan's help to defend from scrutiny and make feeble excuses for?

[chi pan]

Did Yahweh make the sun on day 1 or day 4. Christians will say day 4, after making the earth and plants (!) but how did we have "days" "evenings" and "mornings" then? The sun rather defines the whole concept of day, night, evening and morning.

He made light on day one and the sun moon and stars on day 4.

Did Yahweh make man and woman at the same time (1:27) or first man and later woman (2:22)?

He did not make them at the same time. Genesis 1 is a general layout. Genesis 1:27 simply says he made man and woman on the same day (day six).

FAIL! Note the words "every":

Yes, and he made "every" bird and "every" beast of the field for the garden. This was so he could name them. They still existed, but he made every kind again just for Adam.

[Faith No More]

@Undeceived.
1. You completely missed the point. He wasn't saying that god isn't worthy of worship(even though your god isn't), he was asking why would an enlightened, onipotent being that knows all need to be worshipped. Whether or not god deserves worship is irrelevant. What is relevant is why does this omnipotent deity seem to fall to the same trappings that the human personality brings.

2. Seeing that god is omnipotent, he could come up with better ways to solve problems than taking someone's life.

3. Again, god is omnipotent, so he should easily be able to create a utopia wihtout taking away freedoms.

4. And here we are back to the problem as to why god is so human in nature. Also, if god could have created us as robots to prevent evil, why is it that he would rather evil exist just so he could be loved?

[chi pan]

@Undeceived.
1. You completely missed the point. He wasn't saying that god isn't worthy of worship(even though your god isn't), he was asking why would an enlightened, onipotent being that knows all need to be worshipped. Whether or not god deserves worship is irrelevant. What is relevant is why does this omnipotent deity seem to fall to the same trappings that the human personality brings.

2. Seeing that god is omnipotent, he could come up with better ways to solve problems than taking someone's life.

3. Again, god is omnipotent, so he should easily be able to create a utopia wihtout taking away freedoms.

4. And here we are back to the problem as to why god is so human in nature. Also, if god could have created us as robots to prevent evil, why is it that he would rather evil exist just so he could be loved?

Omnipotence does not mean he can do anything. He can't do what is against nature. He can't do what is sinful. He found a way to save you from eternal death, and that you should be thankful for. He lets us have choice because making robots is unimpressive. Making creatures capable of choosing to obey or disobey but they obey anyways is impressive. Do you find it more satisfying having a computer sew or training a monkey to?

[Voltair]

I am not saying God could create a world in which free will was possible and doing bad things impossible. I am simply saying God could have created a world in which ETERNAL TORMENT for such things was not a part of reality. Although God could have made us immortal from the start and allowed all planets to sustain life thus eliminating harm in the first place.

Why start eternity later instead of now after all?

As far as God cannot do something outside of his nature what caused God to have his own nature? God is said to be uncaused and always to have existed but something caused the imprinting of his qualities. I never understood why people get upset about the idea of infinite regression with the Universe when God is defined in a way as to have never begun but always had these qualities as a part of nature. I won't get too far into that because that would derail the thread into a different topic.

I am all for the idea of God choosing to love us and therefore us wanting to love him. However God's way of getting our love seems to be through threats and gifts. If we do not give him our love he will deliver us to the worst kind of agony and if we do we get rewards. This reward/punishment morality/love system seems very primitive to me and I have a hard time believing an all wise being came up with it. I freely admit there may be some form of deity out there but I find it extraordinarily hard to believe Yahweh is that deity.

[DeistPaladin]

He made light on day one and the sun moon and stars on day 4.

...and my point flew over your head. How were there any days, evenings or mornings without the sun? It kind of defines the whole concept.

He did not make them at the same time. Genesis 1 is a general layout. Genesis 1:27 simply says he made man and woman on the same day (day six).

That's not the impression Gen 1 offers. Further, animals were clearly created before man or woman in Gen 1.

Yes, and he made "every" bird and "every" beast of the field for the garden. This was so he could name them. They still existed, but he made every kind again just for Adam.

You see, I think "every" means "every", as in "every single one in existence". You're looking for words like "copied" or "recreated". Besides, the verses I quoted specified that all this occurred before any plants were in the ground.

I missed the part where you addressed the problem of Job 38. How could the stars be singing when Yahweh created the earth if Yahweh didn't make them until two days later.

[chi pan]

I am not saying God could create a world in which free will was possible and doing bad things impossible. I am simply saying God could have created a world in which ETERNAL TORMENT for such things was not a part of reality. Although God could have made us immortal from the start and allowed all planets to sustain life thus eliminating harm in the first place.

He started making us immortal. God said to man "do not eat of the tree or you will surely die." to then say never mind would be dishonest of him. And he wants us to choose him. in this world we have choice so he was successful in that matter.

As far as God cannot do something outside of his nature what caused God to have his own nature? God is said to be uncaused and always to have existed but something caused the imprinting of his qualities. I never understood why people get upset about the idea of infinite regression with the Universe when God is defined in a way as to have never begun but always had these qualities as a part of nature. I won't get too far into that because that would derail the thread into a different topic.

God dwells outside time and doesnt have a begining or an end. Neither does his qualities and characteristics. The reason we can't say the same about the universe is because time is a fixed part of the universe and as far as your cosmology goes, it always was. If you claim it wasn't then you will need an explanation for the origin of time.

I am all for the idea of God choosing to love us and therefore us wanting to love him. However God's way of getting our love seems to be through threats and gifts. If we do not give him our love he will deliver us to the worst kind of agony and if we do we get rewards. This reward/punishment morality/love system seems very primitive to me and I have a hard time believing an all wise being came up with it. I freely admit there may be some form of deity out there but I find it extraordinarily hard to believe Yahweh is that deity.

It's not rewards punishment. In life he rewards even when we don't deserve it. He also rewards when we do deserve it. God is simply trying to save us from hell and if you don't want to be saved then you won't.

[Voltair]

I am not saying God could create a world in which free will was possible and doing bad things impossible. I am simply saying God could have created a world in which ETERNAL TORMENT for such things was not a part of reality. Although God could have made us immortal from the start and allowed all planets to sustain life thus eliminating harm in the first place.

He started making us immortal. God said to man "do not eat of the tree or you will surely die." to then say never mind would be dishonest of him. And he wants us to choose him. in this world we have choice so he was successful in that matter.

As far as God cannot do something outside of his nature what caused God to have his own nature? God is said to be uncaused and always to have existed but something caused the imprinting of his qualities. I never understood why people get upset about the idea of infinite regression with the Universe when God is defined in a way as to have never begun but always had these qualities as a part of nature. I won't get too far into that because that would derail the thread into a different topic.

God dwells outside time and doesnt have a begining or an end. Neither does his qualities and characteristics. The reason we can't say the same about the universe is because time is a fixed part of the universe and as far as your cosmology goes, it always was. If you claim it wasn't then you will need an explanation for the origin of time.

I am all for the idea of God choosing to love us and therefore us wanting to love him. However God's way of getting our love seems to be through threats and gifts. If we do not give him our love he will deliver us to the worst kind of agony and if we do we get rewards. This reward/punishment morality/love system seems very primitive to me and I have a hard time believing an all wise being came up with it. I freely admit there may be some form of deity out there but I find it extraordinarily hard to believe Yahweh is that deity.

It's not rewards punishment. In life he rewards even when we don't deserve it. He also rewards when we do deserve it. God is simply trying to save us from hell and if you don't want to be saved then you won't.

God first of all could have saved everyone from Hell by not making it in the first place. It is so weird that God portrays himself as a hero even though what he is saving you from is HIS CREATION in the first place.

Actually God gave two people that crack at immortality apparently. They screwed it up so no one else gets a shot? In addition to that how did Adam and Eve know that obeying God was good? It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil right? So before eating of it they knew neither good nor evil? If that is the case how did they know that it was GOOD to obey God? Which was it? Did they have knowledge of good and evil before eating of the tree or not?

Time is a perception we have come up with. The only way you could define time is energy fluctuating I suppose. Time is a construct we invented its not something tangible just something we use to track the passage/transitions in matter. God does NOT explain the origin of existence/time in the first place. God's own existence first of all must be proven and second of all you are arguing that time always did exist just in some other form.

God existed in reality in some form or the other. So in a sense time, in some format, has always existed it just wasn't measured. There is nothing special about time it is just a concept not a reality. So God is not the author of that because WE invented the idea of time. If someone didn't teach you about "time" you would just see reality and notice cycles in nature I.E. the sun/moon/stars. It was only after you were told about it that this idea of time existing was even imposed on your reality. Do you think animals know what time it is or just have synced up to the cycle of things?

[chi pan]

...and my point flew over your head. How were there any days, evenings or mornings without the sun? It kind of defines the whole concept.

Sorry I forgot to address that. Morning and evening is being referred to as a time of day, not position of the sun.

That's not the impression Gen 1 offers. Further, animals were clearly created before man or woman in Gen 1.

That's because when you read it you see it saying God made man and woman in a single moment. It says God made man and woman, the 6th day. It was done in the time period of a day with any expanse of time between possible short of a day.

You see, I think "every" means "every", as in "every single one in existence". You're looking for words like "copied" or "recreated". Besides, the verses I quoted specified that all this occurred before any plants were in the ground.

You don't need the word again or prefix re to infer what it already says. He made them all and he did it again in front of Adam. And genesis chapter 2 is after one. Everything in chapter 2 is going into detail about day 6.

[Doubting Thomas]

He made light on day one and the sun moon and stars on day 4.

So he made light before he made anything which produces light. Gotcha.

Please tell me again why I should believe any part of your bullshit religion?