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Current time: April 27, 2024, 7:32 am

Poll: Where do you stand?
This poll is closed.
Left (liberal, anarchist, communist, socialist)
51.85%
14 51.85%
Centre (mixed views)
40.74%
11 40.74%
Right (fascist, statist, etc)
7.41%
2 7.41%
Total 27 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Poll to see where you stand!
#21
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
(March 12, 2012 at 4:30 pm)Rokcet Scientist Wrote:
(March 12, 2012 at 3:34 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Normally, I wouldn't classify myself as anything, but I guess I'm somewhere in the centre, I guess.

As a panturkist you are a bona fide fascist, mehmet.

Let's take into account the words of a famous pan-turkist, Tengrikut Gökbilge Hüseyin Nihal Atsız.
He speaks of this(the same words were directed towards him by the communists of his time) in his article, "Who is a fascist":
Quote:“Faşist” demek bir devrin İtalyan milliyetçisi demektir. İtalyanca “facio” kelimesinden doğan bu sıfat, Musolini’nin İtalyan milliyetçi partisi mensuplarına alem olmuş, İtalyan milliyetçiliğine de “faşizm” denmişti. Milliyetçiliğin milletleri sardığı sırada hepsi ayrı ayrı adlar almış; Almanlar “nazi” (Nasyonal Sosyalist’ten kısaltma), İspanyollar “falanjist”, Belçikalılar “reksist”, Romenler “gardist” kelimesini kullanmıştı. Bu disiplinli ve komünist düşmanı milliyetçilik ilk önce İtalya’da çıktığı için hepsine birden “faşizm” demek âdet olmuştu.

Translating this:
Quote:The word "Fascist" denotes an Itallian nationalist of any time. Since this is a word that comes from the Italian "facio", it has been used by the Italian nationalist party of Mussolini, and Italian nationalism has been known as fascism ever since. The people where nationalism has taken root have all had different names for their cause, for example Germans used "Nazi"(short for Nationalsozialist), Spaniards "Phalangist", Belgians "Recsists" and Rumanians "Gardists".
Since this type of disciplined, anti-communist type of nationalism was born in Italy, it was taken into consideration to use the umbrella term "Fascist" to them.

However, let's see what he further states:

Quote:Türkiye’de komünistler vardır. Gizli bir komünist partisi de 1920′den beri daima mevcut olmuştur. Fakat Türkiye’de faşist olmadığı gibi açık veya gizli bir faşist partisi de yoktur.
Komünistler milliyeti inkâr ettikleri için dünyadaki bütün komünist partileri dost ve müttefiktir. Halbuki her milliyetçilik başka milliyetçiliklerin aleyhinde olduğundan komünistlerin topyekûn faşist diye adlandırdığı ayrı milletlerin milliyetçileri birbirinin düşmanı veya zıddıdır.
Translation:
Quote:There are communists in Turkey. And there has been a secret communist organisation in Turkey ever since 1920. However, just as there are no "fascists" in Turkey, there never was a fascist party, open, or secretive, in this country. Since communists disregard the notion of ethnicity and national belonging, each and every communist party on earth are eachother's friend and ally. However, each type of nationalism is not in the good graces of another type of nationalism, for that purpose, each type that the communist brands as fascism may stand against eachother, or be hostile towards eachother for that case.

Quote:Türkiye’de faşist, şu veya bu değil, Türkçü gençler vardır. Bunlar göğüslerine millî alâmet olan Bozkurtlu rozet takarlar ve kendilerine Bozkurt derler. Komünistlerin gemi azıya aldığı yıllarda Adalet Partisi, kasdî mi olduğu hâlâ anlaşılmayan bir acz içinde olaylara seyirci kalırken millî duyguyu ve hattâ devleti bilek gücü ile savunanlar, düşmanları tarafından komando diye adlandırılan bu Bozkurtlardı.

Translation:
Quote:In Turkey, there are no fascist, this way or that way, only Turkist youth. These have the Bozkurt(grey wolf) pin on their chests, and call themselves Grey Wolves. When at the days when the communists have abducted ships, and the government stood still against them for some reasons unknown, these were the ones who stood up against them with strength of will, and protected the state, the ones who were named "commandos" by their enemies.
Here, he talks about how the communists resorted to acts of terror and lawlessness to get their point across. Turkist youth have never resorted to acts of violence unless it was absolutely necessary, and when they did, it was in a fair fashion, not like the communists whose ways of killing one was to plant explosives under the seats of the people in coffee houses.


Quote:Millî sembol düşmanlığı, milliyet düşmanlığı, milliyetçi düşmanlığı, millet düşmanlığı acaba nerelere kadar yürüyecek? Onlara şairin şu beytini hatırlatacağız:

Bu kavmın titre makrûn-ı adâlet intikamından;
Kılıçlar çıkmasın bir kerre pür-satvet niyâmından.
Translation:
Quote:The animosity towards a national symbol, towards the nation, towards the nationalist, where will it lead? We shall remind them of the lines of this poet:

"Fear the just vengeance of this nation,
hope that the wrathful swords never leave their sheath. "
Here, he gives out a polite warning, to those who would seek to destroy our national values.
I hope this has been helpful in providing some understanding on why nationalists in different parts of the world ought to be called by their own names, and not be judged by the standards of the other.
I personally do not see any similarity between our ideology, and the ideology of the Italian nationalist(the fascist).

(March 12, 2012 at 5:32 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, he isn't, because he doesn't like the word facist, because it isn't a turkish word....He's already explained this.

Besides that fact, pan-Turkism is a much older movement than fascism.
Fascism holds no "Pan" type of ideas. Frankly, it doesn't have to, as they had their pan-state a long time ago, which did not have the name "fascism" but operated under the name of the "Roman empire", which united all the latin peoples of Italy, and went even further to latinize a number of others, not to mention the whole of Gaul, Celtiberia and parts of the Balkans.
The Turkish ideal of a panturkic state emerged in Russia and France. Not in Germany, not in Italy, not even in Turkey.
It's nothing but unjust to state that we might be "offshoots" of the fascist ideology of Italy.

[Image: trkdevletbayraklar.jpg]
Üze Tengri basmasar, asra Yir telinmeser, Türük bodun ilingin törüngin kim artatı udaçı erti?
Reply
#22
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
I try to be a logical and moral individual who
uses The Golden Rule as a template for whether
I should believe in something or not : I am of the left
but not exclusively : I accept any idea wherever it comes
from long as it does not compromise basic human rights : so
for example I am against the death penalty but in favour of free
university education : this list is too narrow and unrealistic and more
options need to be referenced : I would opt for centre since I am flexible
and open minded as opposed to being left since that suggests that I am only
of that persuasion which as I have already mentioned I am not : and does anyone
here think that atheists are more likely to be of the left than the right and is this because
of an automatic scepticism toward authority inherited from their rejection of the ultimate power
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
Reply
#23
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
This poll is fucking stupid.
Reply
#24
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
My only response can be "I like turtles."
Reply
#25
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
(March 13, 2012 at 8:40 am)Tiberius Wrote: This poll is fucking stupid.

Of course, it makes you have to click on fascist, it makes other people have to click on communist
Reply
#26
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
Communist...or socialist, or liberal, or anarchist.
Reply
#27
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
I voted right.

I'm not a fan of standing in places where everyone else stands. Like bus stops.
Reply
#28
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
Sooo, long story short, it's not a turkish word, and fascists absolutely hate the idea of other fascists being in control of anything. Besides, they weren't turkish ethnocentrists. You think you've broadened my view of the subject matter? Also, on the end of it, someday you're probably going to kill us -politely-, and because of that we should be fearful. I get it.

I do completely agree with you though, your views are a form of "centrism"...see above.

Jerkoff
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#29
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
Having liberal in 'left' is a misnomer. Social liberals, yes. But what about economic liberals?
Reply
#30
RE: Poll to see where you stand!
Overly simplistic poll is overly simplistic.

It's unidimensional and it's a push poll to boot.

Reply



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