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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:26 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 6:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No Chad, we don't. I don't give a shit what you can imagine, you wish for what you imagine to be real. Your observer, your baby. Make your own case. I'd hate to think you were just letting shit slip out of your mouth with nothing to back it up... There are no inches to be had here, there is no give and take. This isn't a negotiation, it's time for you to show me something for putting up with all of your platitudes.
I must agree. I too want to see the trump card. No sophestries or philosophies or subtle shit.
This is God, it should be EASY to prove something all powerful, omnipresent, etc..etc...
Im ready to be awed!
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:29 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 6:16 pm)Chuck Wrote: Valid my ass, make one unique prediction that stams directly from your assertion.
Many predictions are possible, but none would be falsifiable. Similarly, you cannot provide any example of an unobserved physical occurrence.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:30 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 6:10 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (March 14, 2012 at 6:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You claimed an observer, now provide it, don't wriggle, don't shift the burden of proof, don't change the subject.
All I am saying is that we share the burden of proof. You must prove the existence of a physical reality independent of a mind that observes it. I must prove the existence of a mind independent of physical reality. Since neither of us can do that both of our ontological claims are equally valid.
No, you are wriggling again. There is no "shared burdon of proof". You have made the claim of an "observer", now provide evidence for it or admit you do not have such evidence.
The burdon of proof is upon you... man up or wimp off.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:35 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 6:29 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Many predictions are possible, but none would be falsifiable. Similarly, you cannot provide any example of an unobserved physical occurrence.
So, -without further elaboration-?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:37 pm
You also have made a truth claim, i.e. "physical reality exists independent of observation." Now give me an example. It's a double-edged sword.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:44 pm
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2012 at 6:45 pm by reverendjeremiah.)
(March 14, 2012 at 6:37 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You also have made a truth claim, i.e. "physical reality exists independent of observation." Now give me an example. It's a double-edged sword.
Now he is trying to set you up to either except his shitty argument or have him put you into the category of Solipsism.
We shall do an experiment Chad. I will have you stand in front of a shooting range. I will pull out a gun and shoot you. We will then ask someone who didnt see it wether you got shot or not.
Are you willing to bet your life on that challenge?
(March 14, 2012 at 6:35 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (March 14, 2012 at 6:29 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Many predictions are possible, but none would be falsifiable. Similarly, you cannot provide any example of an unobserved physical occurrence.
So, -without further elaboration-?
Dont expect much from him Rythm...I sure dont.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:51 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 6:37 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: You also have made a truth claim, i.e. "physical reality exists independent of observation." Now give me an example. It's a double-edged sword.
You might want to watch the quotes, Chad. Nobody here said that.
The burden of proof sits firmly on you.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 6:53 pm
So you don't actually have the observer do you. You can't provide it, and never could. Rather than be honest you'd rather argue about something else? Typical fundie shit.
I know nothing, everything I know is complete bullshit, the cosmos are a blank, now make your own case.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm
Genkaus, your thoughtful insights are worthy of pondering. So far you are the only one to grasp the true nature of this dilemma. Writing the more nuanced ideas longhand before posting helps me to fully grapple with the ideas. So give me a bit of time to contemplate your posts before continuing the conversation.
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RE: Berkeley's Idealism
March 14, 2012 at 11:11 pm
(March 14, 2012 at 10:27 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Genkaus, your thoughtful insights are worthy of pondering. So far you are the only one to grasp the true nature of this dilemma. Writing the more nuanced ideas longhand before posting helps me to fully grapple with the ideas. So give me a bit of time to contemplate your posts before continuing the conversation.
The funny thing is if you asked me to prove electricity to you I could do it. If I claimed that an atmosphere exists, I can prove it. If I claimed gold existed I could prove it.
You claim a god exists yet you cant even prove your god exists. You just play word games.
...and you wonder why we you on this topic.
Produce REAL evidence or admit your position is just wishful thinking.
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