Old Testament & Christian Morality

[Drich]

What justifies Christians to disregard the Old Testament?

Xtians are cherry-picking assholes....as exemplified right above.

Their boy, jesus supposedly said:

(Verse 17) 'Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil.
(Verse 18) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
(Verse 19) Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
(Matthew 5:17-19 - NKJV).

which is EXACTLY what I said in the "above" post.

Christ Made it impossible to obtain righteousness by observing the Law! Read your bible quote again. Because of what was said there not only is it now a sin to do sinful things, it is a sin to harbor them in your heart even for a moment.
That is what is meant thought the Full Fillment of the Law!!! Why would He do this? So Everyone would be convicted as a sinner, and no one could claim that they could be with out sin. "For ALL Have Sinned And Fallen Short Of The Glory Of God." So if one sin is enough to condemn you and if everyone is guilty of at least one sin then we all have no choice but to seek atonement for our sin, rather than to legalistically/foolishly try and up hold the law.

We up hold the Law because this is the will of our Father and we wish to show our love and appreciation for Him, not because we are trying to earn our way to heaven.

[Neo-Scholastic]

...we have been freed from all of the law as a way to obtain Righteousness (the right to be with God) Righteousness ceased becoming an obtainable objective when Christ "completed the Law." there by make it impossible for anyone to earn their way into heaven by their deeds and efforts...the "moral Law" is what governs the life of the christian not as a way to earn righteousness before God, but as a thank you for the Gift of atonement/righteousness we have received.

The "faith alone" and "once saved, always saved" doctrines are morally bankrupt. Saying you believe in Jesus as YPL&S is not a get-out-of-hell-free card. Works are meritorious because faith by itself is nothing at all unless put into practice. The Word says that even the angels are unclean before God. If unclean angels are in heaven then why do you imagine we would not be brought into the process of salvation. Salvation is not a one time confession, it's the on-going activity that starts with repentance and works to regenerate the soul throughout eternity.

[Minimalist]

"Till ALL is fulfilled," asshole.

Your boy isn't back yet to establish his kingdom.


Nor is he coming.



Nor was he here the first time.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

"Till ALL is fulfilled," asshole.

Your boy isn't back yet to establish his kingdom.


Nor is he coming.



Nor was he here the first time.

Unsurprising I guess, but I have never met a Christian who seems to have actually read Jewish messianic prophecy.


Apart from being emphatically stated that the Messiah WILL NOT BE DIVINE,

JESUS FAILED TO FULFILL ANY OF SIX AUTHENTIC JEWISH MESSIANIC CRITERIA

The word “messiah” means anointed with oil. All kings, high priests, and prophets in the Jewish Bible are described as “messiahs” because they were all anointed with oil into God’s service. Many Jewish prophets foretold that a particular messiah, the Messiah ben David, would appear and fulfill six major prophecies that will lead the world into a special Messianic Era. These messianic criteria are and have always been universally accepted by the Jewish People. Jesus did not qualify as the Jewish Messiah ben David for the simple reason that he did not fulfill any of these criteria. The Messiah ben David must:

1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and King Solomon,
2. be anointed King of Israel,
3. return the Jewish People to Israel,
4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem,
5. bring peace to the world and end all war,
6. bring knowledge of God to the world.

This view is not crackpot fringe,but mainstream Jewish belief. (ask a rabbi)

[Minimalist]

They fucking hate it when you resort to facts, Pad.

Fucks up their whole line of "reasoning."

[LittleMissAwesome]

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

A basic Christian apologist position. It came from Paul of Tarsus. He invented the religion called Christianity more than any other single person,including the poor little Jewish teacher who got himself crucified.(according to Christian mythology)

As I've mentioned today; Jesus admonished his followers to KEEP THE LAW.(Matthew 5 17-19)

Of course the predictable apologist response is that section doesn't actually mean what it says.

One needs to remember that the Bible is the revealed word of God and means exactly what it says,except when it doesn't.

[Drich]

The "faith alone" and "once saved, always saved" doctrines are morally bankrupt. Saying you believe in Jesus as YPL&S is not a get-out-of-hell-free card. Works are meritorious because faith by itself is nothing at all unless put into practice.

Where in my post did I say anything to contrdict any of this?

The Word says that even the angels are unclean before God.

Where? Book Chapter and Verse please.

---

"Till ALL is fulfilled," asshole.

Your boy isn't back yet to establish his kingdom.


Nor is he coming.



Nor was he here the first time.

What the passage is saying is that ALL Aspects of the Law are still applicable Meaning if one wants to find righteousness it has to be through the atonement offered in Christ's sacrifice. Not through the strict adherence of the Law.

To put it even more simply:
Christ took the Law to it's perfect complete level Making it So hard to adhere to that no one can. That is what is mean not the least aspect of the Law will disappear until ALL IS FULL FILLED! Christ did not make it easier, by eliminating anything, He made it Harder to live righteously through the Law by adding precepts that make it impossible. Forcing Everyone to seek another way to obtain righteousness. Because it can no longer be found by "being a good person."

---

JESUS FAILED TO FULFILL ANY OF SIX AUTHENTIC JEWISH MESSIANIC CRITERIA

The word “messiah” means anointed with oil.

No, the word is mashiyach (מָשִׁיחַ ) It can mean any number of things depending on the context.
1) anointed, anointed one

a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince

b) of the king of Israel

c) of the high priest of Israel

d) of Cyrus

e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

All kings, high priests, and prophets in the Jewish Bible are described as “messiahs” because they were all anointed with oil into God’s service.

Again no. It means anointed by God of which oil can represent when God himself does not do the anointing.

Many Jewish prophets foretold that a particular messiah, the Messiah Ben David, would appear and fulfill six major prophecies that will lead the world into a special Messianic Era.

Do you have book chapter and verse for these prophecies?

These messianic criteria are and have always been universally accepted by the Jewish People. Jesus did not qualify as the Jewish Messiah Ben David for the simple reason that he did not fulfill any of these criteria. The Messiah Ben David must:

The term is Bar (Son of) David

1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and King Solomon,

His Mother's is given in Luke and His Legal lineage is Found in Matthew.(through Joseph)

2. be anointed King of Israel,

He was anointed By the Holy Spirit at the time of His baptism. (No oil needed when God does the anointing) Aberham and Moses went through a similar annointing process.

3. return the Jewish People to Israel,

At that time they were still there, in Israel.

4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem,

At that time Herod's temple was complete and was not destroyed for another 70+ years by the romans. You or your rabbi seem to be quoting passages from revelations/Daniel about the second comming.

5. bring peace to the world and end all war,

Do you have Book Chapter and verse for this one?

6. bring knowledge of God to the world.

He did unless you think Christianity does not exist.

---

The "faith alone" and "once saved, always saved" doctrines are morally bankrupt. Saying you believe in Jesus as YPL&S is not a get-out-of-hell-free card. Works are meritorious because faith by itself is nothing at all unless put into practice.

Where in my post did I say anything to contrdict any of this?

The Word says that even the angels are unclean before God.

Where? Book Chapter and Verse please.

---

"Till ALL is fulfilled," asshole.

Your boy isn't back yet to establish his kingdom.


Nor is he coming.



Nor was he here the first time.

What the passage is saying is that ALL Aspects of the Law are still applicable Meaning if one wants to find righteousness it has to be through the atonement offered in Christ's sacrifice. Not through the strict adherence of the Law.

To put it even more simply:
Christ took the Law to it's perfect complete level Making it So hard to adhere to that no one can. That is what is mean not the least aspect of the Law will disappear until ALL IS FULL FILLED! Christ did not make it easier, by eliminating anything, He made it Harder to live righteously through the Law by adding precepts that make it impossible. Forcing Everyone to seek another way to obtain righteousness. Because it can no longer be found by "being a good person."

---

JESUS FAILED TO FULFILL ANY OF SIX AUTHENTIC JEWISH MESSIANIC CRITERIA

The word “messiah” means anointed with oil.

No, the word is mashiyach (מָשִׁיחַ ) It can mean any number of things depending on the context.
1) anointed, anointed one

a) of the Messiah, Messianic prince

b) of the king of Israel

c) of the high priest of Israel

d) of Cyrus

e) of the patriarchs as anointed kings

All kings, high priests, and prophets in the Jewish Bible are described as “messiahs” because they were all anointed with oil into God’s service.

Again no. It means anointed by God of which oil can represent when God himself does not do the anointing.

Many Jewish prophets foretold that a particular messiah, the Messiah Ben David, would appear and fulfill six major prophecies that will lead the world into a special Messianic Era.

Do you have book chapter and verse for these prophecies?

These messianic criteria are and have always been universally accepted by the Jewish People. Jesus did not qualify as the Jewish Messiah Ben David for the simple reason that he did not fulfill any of these criteria. The Messiah Ben David must:

The term is Bar (Son of) David

1. have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and King Solomon,

His Mother's is given in Luke and His Legal lineage is Found in Matthew.(through Joseph)

2. be anointed King of Israel,

He was anointed By the Holy Spirit at the time of His baptism. (No oil needed when God does the anointing) Aberham and Moses went through a similar annointing process.

3. return the Jewish People to Israel,

At that time they were still there, in Israel.

4. rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem,

At that time Herod's temple was complete and was not destroyed for another 70+ years by the romans. You or your rabbi seem to be quoting passages from revelations/Daniel about the second comming.

5. bring peace to the world and end all war,

Do you have Book Chapter and verse for this one?

6. bring knowledge of God to the world.

He did unless you think Christianity does not exist.

---

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

The new testament is the continuation of the old. The Old was to establish who God is, the identification of sin and consequence, and to predict the coming salvation/redemption of sins offered by the Messiah. In the new we have the full fillment of said prophecies, the story of the Messiah, the Gospel the establishment of the Church and the promise of his return. The whole bible tells one story in two parts.

Two sides of the same coin.

---

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

A basic Christian apologist position. It came from Paul of Tarsus. He invented the religion called Christianity more than any other single person,including the poor little Jewish teacher who got himself crucified.(according to Christian mythology)

As I've mentioned today; Jesus admonished his followers to KEEP THE LAW.(Matthew 5 17-19)

Of course the predictable apologist response is that section doesn't actually mean what it says.

One needs to remember that the Bible is the revealed word of God and means exactly what it says,except when it doesn't.

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
Who were the scribes and Pharisees Jesus mention here?

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

The term is Bar (Son of) David

It's either, you moron. 'Bar' and 'ben" and BOTH mean 'son'.

In Arabic it's 'bin'; Hence 'Yeshua bar/ben David'' becomes "Esa bin Daoud"

He was anointed By the Holy Spirit at the time of His baptism.

The word 'annointed' is literal.

No, the word is mashiyach (מָשִׁיחַ ) It can mean any number of things depending on the context.

Wrong yet again.

Messiah is the anglicized version of a Hebrew term (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, Modern Mashiaẖ Tiberian Māšîăḥ; Aramaic: ‎משיחא, Məšīḥaʼ; Arabic language مسيح, Masih; all meaning "anointed one") generally transliterated as Mashiach, designating a king or High Priest, who were traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil as described in Exodus 30:22-25 (the term was not applied exclusively to Jewish kings; the Hebrew Bible refers to Cyrus the great, king of Persia, as a messiah).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah


Really don't know why I bother,it's like trying to communicate with the dead.

[Minimalist]

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

Jesus disagrees with you but who knows. Perhaps you are right.