Old Testament & Christian Morality

[mediamogul]

I have heard that the new testament replaced the old testament. That is why it doesn't apply. Not sure where that idea comes from.

Jesus disagrees with you but who knows. Perhaps you are right.

It comes from people who want to try and disown all the awful things that were written in the old testament. It is included in the bible for a reason.

What awful things?

Genesis
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Don't forget this is Passover. A holiday still widely celebrated.

Numbers
25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

Deuteronomy
The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

That's right. He said eat them. Yahweh is a real family values kind of god.

1 Samuel
15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

2 Kings
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings
15:16 Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

This one kind of settles the abortion issue. Don't you think?

2 Kings
6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow.
6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.

This is part of a plague that was the "Evil of god".

Psalms
137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Well I guess a man should take pride in his work.

There are a million more if you would like to hear them. I think this basically gives the flavor of the Old Testament. I wonder if any of this has even an ounce of truth to it. Dear god I hope not!

[NoMoreFaith]

Hey, take Elisha out of there. Ordering motherfucking bears to rip children (probably young adults) up might be immoral, but that deserves plus points for being utterly badass.

[mediamogul]

Hey, take Elisha out of there. Ordering motherfucking bears to rip children (probably young adults) up might be immoral, but that deserves plus points for being utterly badass.

Plus, never make fun of a bald man's head. Those kids must have realized that they would be torn up by bears. It kind of goes without saying.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I hope you all take the opportunities I allow you

THAT is arguably the most patronising, sanctimonious and priggish thing you have said here.


Sill thinking of Uriah Heep


00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Some life observations:


WHAT THEY SAY VS WHAT THEY MEAN

"I'm very honest,what you see is what you get" -------------------------- "I'm blunt and insensitive"

"I believe in solid Christian morality" --------------------------- "----- for my neighbours, I find it too inconvenient".

"I'm actually very generous" ----------------------------- "---to myself. When it comes to others I'm too mean to spit"

"I'm very spiritual" ---------------------------------- " I'm superstitious and not very bright"

"I will pray for you" ----------------------------- "---to go to hell"

"I am blessed with humility" ------------------------------ "I am a self absorbed prig with the self awareness of a frog"

---

Plus, never make fun of a bald man's head.

I can confirm that. I happen to be bald,and often allow my pit bull to kill children who make fun of my baldness,as well as anyone who touches my hat..

[Minimalist]

One is of His Mother and the Other is of His Legal or Step Father's side.

Wrong.

Read them again asshole.

[Drich]

Genesis
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Don't forget this is Passover. A holiday still widely celebrated.

Numbers
25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

Deuteronomy
The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

That's right. He said eat them. Yahweh is a real family values kind of god.

1 Samuel
15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

2 Kings
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings
15:16 Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

This one kind of settles the abortion issue. Don't you think?

2 Kings
6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow.
6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.

This is part of a plague that was the "Evil of god".

Psalms
137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Well I guess a man should take pride in his work.

There are a million more if you would like to hear them. I think this basically gives the flavor of the Old Testament. I wonder if any of this has even an ounce of truth to it. Dear god I hope not!

Why do you consider any of these things aweful?

---

One is of His Mother and the Other is of His Legal or Step Father's side.

Wrong.

Read them again asshole.

you do understand there is not a word for daughter in law correct? and because Marry was married to Joseph she belong to the House of Joseph. This means his name supersedes hers on all legal documents Like for instance.. I don't know: Genealogies. Plus we know who Mary's father was, and He did not co-father Joseph.

---

I hope you all take the opportunities I allow you

THAT is arguably the most patronising, sanctimonious and priggish thing you have said here.


Sill thinking of Uriah Heep


00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Some life observations:


WHAT THEY SAY VS WHAT THEY MEAN

"I'm very honest,what you see is what you get" -------------------------- "I'm blunt and insensitive"

"I believe in solid Christian morality" --------------------------- "----- for my neighbours, I find it too inconvenient".

"I'm actually very generous" ----------------------------- "---to myself. When it comes to others I'm too mean to spit"

"I'm very spiritual" ---------------------------------- " I'm superstitious and not very bright"

"I will pray for you" ----------------------------- "---to go to hell"

"I am blessed with humility" ------------------------------ "I am a self absorbed prig with the self awareness of a frog"

---

Plus, never make fun of a bald man's head.

I can confirm that. I happen to be bald,and often allow my pit bull to kill children who make fun of my baldness,as well as anyone who touches my hat..

Let see what i actually said:
" I welcome the opportunities you all present, in turn I hope you all take the opportunities I allow you."

In the message's proper context the writer seem to be offering a concession for the inevitable give and take relationship developed in on going debates. In other words he seems to acknowledge fact that he will be intentionally shamed many many times, yet he also sees potential opportunity where you may perceive shame, where none maybe intended. Thus providing you an opportunity to seek "humility." (as apposed to shame)

[mediamogul]

Genesis
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

Don't forget this is Passover. A holiday still widely celebrated.

Numbers
25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.

Deuteronomy
The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

That's right. He said eat them. Yahweh is a real family values kind of god.

1 Samuel
15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

2 Kings
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

2 Kings
15:16 Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.

This one kind of settles the abortion issue. Don't you think?

2 Kings
6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son tomorrow.
6:29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.

This is part of a plague that was the "Evil of god".

Psalms
137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Well I guess a man should take pride in his work.

There are a million more if you would like to hear them. I think this basically gives the flavor of the Old Testament. I wonder if any of this has even an ounce of truth to it. Dear god I hope not!

Why do you consider any of these things aweful?

---

Because I don't by this divine command stuff that you have been expounding. It reeks of crusades era Christianity during which believers thought they had a mandate from god to commit whatever atrocity under the guise of "god wills it" which essentially opens the door for any amoral action that one could imagine. Once again nothing about obedience implies morality it is simply the device of a jealous controlling god.

You really believe that murdering children and pregnant women is something a loving god who cares for his creation would do? A "father" as you put it? From what father in the world would we accept the murder of his baby? Nevermind in such a horrific fashion.

My friend, I discoursed with you respectfully up to this point but when you start arguing slavery and murder purely on the grounds of obedience to god this is where we part ways. This is the Christian pathology at its worst.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I have been following this thread and became curious about a related topic. Sincere request: Could someone point me to a good thread that discusses various atheistic foundations for ethics and morality?

[The Grand Nudger]

To be fair, they're all "atheistic foundations", what with there being no gods laying around.

[Greeny]

I have been following this thread and became curious about a related topic. Sincere request: Could someone point me to a good thread that discusses various atheistic foundations for ethics and morality?

Since morality is decided by society and the basic human willingness to treat others how we'd like to be treated ourselves, there are no dictated foundations. Maybe it can be explained scientifically, but I don't need to question whether or not we should stone homosexuals and rape victims, or enslave fellow humans, and that should speak for itself.

Also just wanted to say: Thanks to everyone for responding to this topic, plenty of great insights and the one from the Christian on page one pretty much confirmed what I was thinking. Cherrypicking the good from the bad. "The basic guidelines from the OT still stand, but the mean laws don't."