Need help for a Sunday School class

[The Grand Nudger]

Hmn, questions about god....

Boxers or briefs?

Welcome aboard.

[adam c]

Hmn, questions about god....

Boxers or briefs?

Welcome aboard.

Thank you Rhythm.

Paul says in Galations 5:1 that it is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

Therefore, commando.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sounds like my kind of guy, now maybe we can lay our "equipment" out to see who's is bigger?

[Drich]

"How could a loving God command the Israelites to commit genocide?".

Because God's actions are not based in our "morality." God acts according to His own righteousness.

righteousness is God's perfect standard or Expressed will free from sin.

Morality is man's attempt to acheive His level of righteousness, but also incorperates the sin man is will to live with, or can reason/justify commiting into that standard.

For example God's Righteousness proclaims that it is always a sin to lie.
Morality can justify a lie to save a life. (from their the sliding scale degrades)

While it is good to save a life lying is still a sin.

That makes Morality based in a form of righteousness found apart from God. Often times it is founded with in our own sense of right and wrong. or a strong/governing sense of conscience if you will. Christ referrs to this type of righteousness as "Self righteousness." The pharasees were big on this. This personal form of righteousness is what allows a person to judge the actions of God and feel justified in doing so. Because they believe that thier sense of right and wrong trumps that of God. They pay omage to the idea of "rightness" over the one who has founded it in his expressed will.

Why Can God call for the genocide of a race? Because it is in His will to do so.

Killing/death is not a sin. Murder is. Murder is the unsanctioned taking of life.(unsanctioned by God) If God wishes someone to die then that death is sanctioned therefore not murder. If God wishes to wipe out an entire race of people then glory to God for doing so.

Remember philosphies the sorround concepts like "good and evil" do not have the intrinsic value those of this world place on them. What makes something "good" is because God wills it. What makes something evil is the condition of the heart that seeks to be outside of the expressed will of God. Good and evil are not forces that everything is measured (including God) Good is God, and everything in his expressed will. evil is a malcious intent to be outside of His expressed will.

In short God is the standard, not the pop cultures 'feelings' on what good and evil are.

The Bible commands us to always be ready to give an answer for the things we believe.

Actually we are merely to give a reason for the "hope" that we have with in us.

I spent some time teaching collage age singles group myself, it was one of the most enjoyable things I have done. Be true to the calling, be faithful to what you have been given, follow the word where ever it takes you, and you will do fine.

I have only been on this site about a week, and can say there are some people who have really good questions and can provide some simulating challenges. However there are those who would like to see you crash and burn as well. They will bait you into breaking the rules if you are not careful, just to have you suspended. My suggestion is read the rules and be careful about what you say lest it be considered "preaching." If you stay on topic and stay true to the subject matter the mods will act honorably.

Welcome to Atheist forums and good luck!

[Tobie]

Why Can God call for the genocide of a race? Because it is in His will to do so.

So god commands his followers to commit genocide because he can? Sounds like a lovely bloke, I can see why you want to worship him.

It was Hitler's will to start the holocaust, yet I don't see you justifying that.

[mediamogul]

1) Why is it that god always "selects" the craziest and least reliable people to be "prophets"?

2) Why is it that a Christian can so easily see the falsehood of EVERY other religion but their own when they all demand belief in precisely the same way and on precisely the same grounds?

3) Why is it that christians can be so rational and demand evidence and reason in so many other areas but have this compartmentalized blind spot for religion which they feel perfectly acceptable believing on faith in spite of the mountain of evidence against every one of it's claims?

4)Why is it that christians trust science when it makes their sattelites function, makes their cell phones work and cures their diseases but when the EXACT same scientific claims that these devices and methods are based on contradict their religious claims they suddenly are completely opposed to scientific methods?

5) Why is it that every conversation with a theist includes the same three tired "arguments" a) What if you're wrong? b) Pol Pot, Stalin, and Hitler were atheists so doesn't atheism make you evil? c) So you believe the universe and life just magically appeared?

6) What other system of thought in the world would you allow someone to believe merely on the basis of their "faith" in it? Marxism? Fascism? Nazism? Anarchism?

That's it for now. I've got a million but I doubt they are going towards valid intellectual and scientific pursuits. You appear to have the fundamentalist mindset of no matter what you are not going to give up your beliefs and this is more an excercise in attempting to create apologetics.

[The Grand Nudger]

Arbitrary sense of morality and righteousness you've got there Drich. No worries, mine's similarly arbitrary. That being said, since it's all just arbitrary anyway, I think I'll stick with my own, what with it being mine and all.

[adam c]

1) Why is it that god always "selects" the craziest and least reliable people to be "prophets"?

2) Why is it that a Christian can so easily see the falsehood of EVERY other religion but their own when they all demand belief in precisely the same way and on precisely the same grounds?

3) Why is it that christians can be so rational and demand evidence and reason in so many other areas but have this compartmentalized blind spot for religion which they feel perfectly acceptable believing on faith in spite of the mountain of evidence against every one of it's claims?

4)Why is it that christians trust science when it makes their sattelites function, makes their cell phones work and cures their diseases but when the EXACT same scientific claims that these devices and methods are based on contradict their religious claims they suddenly are completely opposed to scientific methods?

5) Why is it that every conversation with a theist includes the same three tired "arguments" a) What if you're wrong? b) Pol Pot, Stalin, and Hitler were atheists so doesn't atheism make you evil? c) So you believe the universe and life just magically appeared?

6) What other system of thought in the world would you allow someone to believe merely on the basis of their "faith" in it? Marxism? Fascism? Nazism? Anarchism?

That's it for now. I've got a million but I doubt they are going towards valid intellectual and scientific pursuits. You appear to have the fundamentalist mindset of no matter what you are not going to give up your beliefs and this is more an excercise in attempting to create apologetics.

Thank you for the reply mediamogul. Can I ask for some clarifications?

1. To which prophets are you referring? biblical or contemporary?

2. Jesus actually condemned the religious leaders of the day for this exact thing (trying to remove the splinter from your neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in your own). "I would dispute your assertion of precisely the same way and on precisely the same grounds."

I would make the case that many of the tenants of Christianity are unique, though in your eyes perhaps equally as wrong. That would be a discussion for another time as I didn't come here to proselytize.

3. is a legitimate question. I'll bring it up to the group.

4. I don't guess I know the Christians you know, but I'll give this one some thought.

5. You will not hear any of these comments from me.

6. I would absolutely defend your right to believe as you wish. I would question how adequately any of these world views would serve you in the long run.

To be fair, your questions also seem to indicate a fundamentalist mindset of no matter what you are not going to give up your beliefs.

I did state from the beginning that my intention was to use these questions to create apologetics.

Thanks,
Adam C

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Sounds like my kind of guy, now maybe we can lay our "equipment" out to see who's is bigger?

I must warn you, I'm hung like a bull squirrel.

Just a side note, did you know the phrase "hung like mule" has its origins in the bible? Ezekiel 23:20. Not many Sunday sermons on that one though.

[Drich]

Why Can God call for the genocide of a race? Because it is in His will to do so.

So god commands his followers to commit genocide because he can? Sounds like a lovely bloke, I can see why you want to worship him.

It was Hitler's will to start the holocaust, yet I don't see you justifying that.

Is it your belief that hitler was God? What of his claims of atheism?

[Tobie]

Why Can God call for the genocide of a race? Because it is in His will to do so.

So god commands his followers to commit genocide because he can? Sounds like a lovely bloke, I can see why you want to worship him.

It was Hitler's will to start the holocaust, yet I don't see you justifying that.

Is it your belief that hitler was God? What of his claims of atheism?

No, I do not believe hitler was a god. You cannot justify your god commanding genocide by saying he wills it. You cannot justify genocide at all.

Also, hitler was by no means an atheist. He publicly stated he believed in christ, and an aryan one, no less.