Is purposeless torture moral?

[TheJackel]

You contradict yourself, yes I read the Bible and study it, I'm well aware of it's content.

I haven't contradicted myself what-so-ever. You on the other hand are contradicting yourself when you tell us you believe GOD loves everyone while ignoring what's actually written in the bible.. You must really think you are clever, or really think people are stupid to the point they wouldn't notice. And giving your responses, I don't think you have actually bothered to study the bible much less the history of how your religion came to be. You lie far too much, and you are far to ignorant of what's actually in your bible for you ever to make the claim you are aware of it's content. This video says it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrZurZZt6GM

Christ actually died, two totally different situations.

Please prove your assertions and then state the relevance.. And are you asserting Jesus is not with your GOD, or isn't GOD himself? So is your GOD dead or what?

dead (dd)
adj. dead·er, dead·est
1. Having lost life; no longer alive.
2. Lacking feeling or sensitivity, or unresponsive
3. Not having the capacity to live; inanimate or inert.
4. Not having the capacity to produce or sustain life
5. No longer in existence, use, or operation.
6. No longer having significance or relevance.
7. Physically inactive
8. Not commercially productive; idle: dead capital.
9. Not circulating or running; stagnant: dead water; dead air.
10. Lacking all animation, excitement, or activity

So GOD destroys himself for your sins and then magically from non-existence, as in not existing, comes back? And that is if you believe in the trinity bullshit. And the last time I checked, people who actually do sacrifice their lives for yours do not get to play that polar trick. Do tell us again what exactly are we supposed to be impressed by here? I don't see you worshiping an Atheist soldier whom gave his life so you can live in luxury as a GOD. Just admit it, you are trying to appeal to guilt and emotion as some sort of conversion and dishonest debate tool.

Show me my change of belief, the goal post have not moved, your problem is the way you want to look at each situation so you can have an argument. It's obvious that you are unstable, you have shown us that in the way you changed your life many times. It's no wonder you do not live a coherent life.

Changing life through a process of actual education is not a life of incoherency, it is the obtaining of coherency in life.. Nice fail at a dogmatic game of ad hominems.. And nor did I say you changed your "Belief".. I stated you change your arguments to suit your needs in a debate.. All of which come from a position of complete and utter assertion. Your arguments are essentially nothing more than appeals to ignorance, authority, and emotion. You hop around in those arguments because that is all you have to work with.

There is no way you or anyone else could know what it's like not to have the love of God, He loves everyone, when one enters hell His love will no longer be with anyone there.

When we have people make such self-refuting and self-collapsing arguments that literally contradict themselves within the confines of their very own sentences, you have to wonder how deluded and intellectually inept they really are. Especially when the context of their statement is designed specifically to target human vulnerabilities. The nature of such is the targeting of peoples wanting to be loved, as a means to psychologically and emotionally manipulate them in to submitting their lives to loving a supposed GOD claimed to love them if they worship this supposed GOD. And when you see these types of arguments, you know a few things right away:

1. It's bull shit
2. How brainwashed they are
3. How much they are trying to appeal to your vulnerabilities to get you to submit and believe in their religious cult / ideology.. All cults do this shit btw..
4. What the fundamentals of brainwashing entail, how it works, and how it is used.
5. How dishonest the person using this methodology is, or how messed up they are in regards to their ideology.
6. How to spot a snake salesmen who relies on such arguments for debate, or to sell his wares.. Never ask for proof, they have none to offer..
7. What an appeal to emotion and ignorance is.
8. How one is able to ignore all the problems and issues with their ideology, or even be capable of rationalizing things like Genocide as righteous acts..
9. What a clear sign of defeat in a debate looks like when one can not deal with reality, the problems with their beliefs, or the sheer ignorance of their position.

Maybe this Can help GODChild realize how much we give a shit what his Volcano thinks:

I DENY THE HOLY SPIRIT: Test Of Tolerance.

Let me guess, his GOD is going to throw a tantrum like a 3 year old because he can't seem to handle rejection.. NPD my friends, nothing like worshiping Narcissism. And the only people that do that are those who are weak, scared, and and worship power in what can be best described as a slave master relationship, or a total reduction of ones life to that of the role of "Puppet". But hey, some people love being a puppet when they think it will protect them from reality, rationality, and their fears..Kinda like those who helped the Nazi's gain power, or those who loved and feared Hitler.. There is no honesty or rationality that can be found in religious beliefs because they directly survive on one lying to themselves, ignorance, and preying on other peoples weaknesses. Religion a tool to stop free thought, critical thinking, intellectualism, logic, and reason all together. Whenever this happens, you get places like Afghanistan and Sudan ect.. And there are religious nuts in America that want exactly that.

Here is an example of why theists do this and sacrifice logic and reason for their religion, or had done so.. This example is someone similar to myself, and I can't agree more:

I came from a Fundamentalist upbringing. I can honestly say that the emotional pull of a religious community, especially one in which you are loved and accepted, is enormously fulfilling and is excruciating to wrest yourself from.

deft1trickster 11 months ago 10 (on youtube)

And it does scare the pants off of fellow Christian's when you do give up the religion for rationality, logic, reason and the lack of fear of reality, and the supposed magical sky daddy volcano.. I never in my life seen so much hate, scorn, and anger in my life till I stopped being a Christian. Once you step out, you find out that much of the community that supposedly loved you only cared about you being a part of their cult. What many of them will do is turn on you and even befriend you. You even start getting harassed as I and a few others I know of have had to deal with vandalism and hate messages from those we once shared a church with. However, I was able to remain friends with the non-psychotic members of the church. And let me tell you, I can count them on half a hand.. And that is where you learn that you don't find true friendship and love in religious ideologies, in GOD's that demand it or burn, or in fellow church members who will vindictively and viciously turn on you.. Nope, you find in in people who actually care about you and it's irrelevant what beliefs or difference of beliefs there are on the subject. Religion and cults are basically what you call schools of fish that gather for protection from reality, or for power and control over other people ect. That's all they represent when you get to the core of it.. So what was the very first thing that happened when I came out of the Atheist closet?

Well to no surprise at all, I was bombarded with the fear and guilt tools engraved and burned into all their brainwashed minds.. Threats of hell to disgracing Jesus's sacrifice, and to eternal damnation ect. Most of which coming from my church community, family, and what I thought were my friends.. That is when you realize how psychologically fucked up they actually were, and how messed up religious cults are. And let me tell ya, that kind of mentality is the exact same kind that goes out looking for witches to burn, or what can cause people to fly airplanes into buildings.. And you don't fully get it unless you have been on both sides of the fence. And that has brought me more coherency in life that CG could possibly ever imagine.. And I consider myself lucky since escaping such cults and mind wipe religions is so incredibly difficult to do. It takes a lot of strength and courage to get out of such mind sucking cults, ideologies, beliefs, cultures, and social structures that play on the rims of Egocentric and Narcissistic psychopathy..

[Godscreated]

You contradict yourself, yes I read the Bible and study it, I'm well aware of it's content.

I haven't contradicted myself what-so-ever. You on the other hand are contradicting yourself when you tell us you believe GOD loves everyone while ignoring what's actually written in the bible.. You must really think you are clever, or really think people are stupid to the point they wouldn't notice. And giving your responses, I don't think you have actually bothered to study the bible much less the history of how your religion came to be. You lie far too much, and you are far to ignorant of what's actually in your bible for you ever to make the claim you are aware of it's content. This video says it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrZurZZt6GM

Christ actually died, two totally different situations.

Please prove your assertions and then state the relevance.. And are you asserting Jesus is not with your GOD, or isn't GOD himself? So is your GOD dead or what?

dead (dd)
adj. dead·er, dead·est
1. Having lost life; no longer alive.
2. Lacking feeling or sensitivity, or unresponsive
3. Not having the capacity to live; inanimate or inert.
4. Not having the capacity to produce or sustain life
5. No longer in existence, use, or operation.
6. No longer having significance or relevance.
7. Physically inactive
8. Not commercially productive; idle: dead capital.
9. Not circulating or running; stagnant: dead water; dead air.
10. Lacking all animation, excitement, or activity

So GOD destroys himself for your sins and then magically from non-existence, as in not existing, comes back? And that is if you believe in the trinity bullshit. And the last time I checked, people who actually do sacrifice their lives for yours do not get to play that polar trick. Do tell us again what exactly are we supposed to be impressed by here? I don't see you worshiping an Atheist soldier whom gave his life so you can live in luxury as a GOD. Just admit it, you are trying to appeal to guilt and emotion as some sort of conversion and dishonest debate tool.

Show me my change of belief, the goal post have not moved, your problem is the way you want to look at each situation so you can have an argument. It's obvious that you are unstable, you have shown us that in the way you changed your life many times. It's no wonder you do not live a coherent life.

Changing life through a process of actual education is not a life of incoherency, it is the obtaining of coherency in life.. Nice fail at a dogmatic game of ad hominems.. And nor did I say you changed your "Belief".. I stated you change your arguments to suit your needs in a debate.. All of which come from a position of complete and utter assertion. Your arguments are essentially nothing more than appeals to ignorance, authority, and emotion. You hop around in those arguments because that is all you have to work with.

There is no way you or anyone else could know what it's like not to have the love of God, He loves everyone, when one enters hell His love will no longer be with anyone there.

When we have people make such self-refuting and self-collapsing arguments that literally contradict themselves within the confines of their very own sentences, you have to wonder how deluded and intellectually inept they really are. Especially when the context of their statement is designed specifically to target human vulnerabilities. The nature of such is the targeting of peoples wanting to be loved, as a means to psychologically and emotionally manipulate them in to submitting their lives to loving a supposed GOD claimed to love them if they worship this supposed GOD. And when you see these types of arguments, you know a few things right away:

1. It's bull shit
2. How brainwashed they are
3. How much they are trying to appeal to your vulnerabilities to get you to submit and believe in their religious cult / ideology.. All cults do this shit btw..
4. What the fundamentals of brainwashing entail, how it works, and how it is used.
5. How dishonest the person using this methodology is, or how messed up they are in regards to their ideology.
6. How to spot a snake salesmen who relies on such arguments for debate, or to sell his wares.. Never ask for proof, they have none to offer..
7. What an appeal to emotion and ignorance is.
8. How one is able to ignore all the problems and issues with their ideology, or even be capable of rationalizing things like Genocide as righteous acts..
9. What a clear sign of defeat in a debate looks like when one can not deal with reality, the problems with their beliefs, or the sheer ignorance of their position.

Maybe this Can help GODChild realize how much we give a shit what his Volcano thinks:

I DENY THE HOLY SPIRIT: Test Of Tolerance.

Let me guess, his GOD is going to throw a tantrum like a 3 year old because he can't seem to handle rejection.. NPD my friends, nothing like worshiping Narcissism. And the only people that do that are those who are weak, scared, and and worship power in what can be best described as a slave master relationship, or a total reduction of ones life to that of the role of "Puppet". But hey, some people love being a puppet when they think it will protect them from reality, rationality, and their fears..Kinda like those who helped the Nazi's gain power, or those who loved and feared Hitler.. There is no honesty or rationality that can be found in religious beliefs because they directly survive on one lying to themselves, ignorance, and preying on other peoples weaknesses. Religion a tool to stop free thought, critical thinking, intellectualism, logic, and reason all together. Whenever this happens, you get places like Afghanistan and Sudan ect.. And there are religious nuts in America that want exactly that.

Here is an example of why theists do this and sacrifice logic and reason for their religion, or had done so.. This example is someone similar to myself, and I can't agree more:

I came from a Fundamentalist upbringing. I can honestly say that the emotional pull of a religious community, especially one in which you are loved and accepted, is enormously fulfilling and is excruciating to wrest yourself from.

deft1trickster 11 months ago 10 (on youtube)

And it does scare the pants off of fellow Christian's when you do give up the religion for rationality, logic, reason and the lack of fear of reality, and the supposed magical sky daddy volcano.. I never in my life seen so much hate, scorn, and anger in my life till I stopped being a Christian. Once you step out, you find out that much of the community that supposedly loved you only cared about you being a part of their cult. What many of them will do is turn on you and even befriend you. You even start getting harassed as I and a few others I know of have had to deal with vandalism and hate messages from those we once shared a church with. However, I was able to remain friends with the non-psychotic members of the church. And let me tell you, I can count them on half a hand.. And that is where you learn that you don't find true friendship and love in religious ideologies, in GOD's that demand it or burn, or in fellow church members who will vindictively and viciously turn on you.. Nope, you find in in people who actually care about you and it's irrelevant what beliefs or difference of beliefs there are on the subject. Religion and cults are basically what you call schools of fish that gather for protection from reality, or for power and control over other people ect. That's all they represent when you get to the core of it.. So what was the very first thing that happened when I came out of the Atheist closet?

Well to no surprise at all, I was bombarded with the fear and guilt tools engraved and burned into all their brainwashed minds.. Threats of hell to disgracing Jesus's sacrifice, and to eternal damnation ect. Most of which coming from my church community, family, and what I thought were my friends.. That is when you realize how psychologically fucked up they actually were, and how messed up religious cults are. And let me tell ya, that kind of mentality is the exact same kind that goes out looking for witches to burn, or what can cause people to fly airplanes into buildings.. And you don't fully get it unless you have been on both sides of the fence. And that has brought me more coherency in life that CG could possibly ever imagine.. And I consider myself lucky since escaping such cults and mind wipe religions is so incredibly difficult to do. It takes a lot of strength and courage to get out of such mind sucking cults, ideologies, beliefs, cultures, and social structures that play on the rims of Egocentric and Narcissistic psychopathy..

Good testimony, sorry you were treated so, to bad you moved to the wrong side of the fence.

[TheJackel]

Good testimony, sorry you were treated so, to bad you moved to the wrong side of the fence.

My experience really has nothing to do with my conversion... Education did that.. But you might have fun believing that CG Now prove I "moved to the wrong side of the fence". You sure do like to assert things you can't back up there CG. Now that is desperation projecting when you see the need to keep trying to debate relying on religious dogma. Essentially as the video stated, you've got nothing. Basically this discussion is over until you can actually provide something of intellectual integrity, or when you can actually engage in honest discourse.

[Godscreated]

Good testimony, sorry you were treated so, to bad you moved to the wrong side of the fence.

My experience really has nothing to do with my conversion... Education did that.. But you might have fun believing that CG Now prove I "moved to the wrong side of the fence". You sure do like to assert things you can't back up there CG. Now that is desperation projecting when you see the need to keep trying to debate relying on religious dogma. Essentially as the video stated, you've got nothing. Basically this discussion is over until you can actually provide something of intellectual integrity, or when you can actually engage in honest discourse.

Good, I trust in the faith that lead to belief.

[TheJackel]

Good, I trust in the faith that lead to belief.

That's not very impressive, we can do the very same thing in regards to disbelief .., or even in belief your god was killed and destroyed by the tooth fairy.. so basically you have no argument, and just came here to spam your faith in dishonest circular argument lacking any and all regard for intellectual integrity... thus you are pretty much worthless in these discussions.

[Godscreated]

Good, I trust in the faith that lead to belief.

That's not very impressive, we can do the very same thing in regards to disbelief .., or even in belief your god was killed and destroyed by the tooth fairy.. so basically you have no argument, and just came here to spam your faith in dishonest circular argument lacking any and all regard for intellectual integrity... thus you are pretty much worthless in these discussions.

Your opinion is like a jackel, no one needs one.

[The Grand Nudger]

Ah but jackals and gods are similar in that regard, the only difference being that jackals exist nonetheless.

[Disciple]

About weather hell is a literal or symbolic place the christian faith clearly desctibes it as a real physical place that is eternal seperation from God. It is my personal belief that those that go to hell were given the lifetime needed to make their decision about where they would choose to go. At the time of death whatever decision was made was the only decision that would have ever been made by that person. Even if given a million years on earth they would have still chosen to be apart from God. So God sends nobody to hell people choose to go there. The bible states that hell is seperation from god and also all good things come from god, so if god isnt there than nothing good is there either hence the flames and brimstone and whatnot. It even says that people in hell are still unrepentant so they still choose to be there as crazy as that sounds to me personally. So its not that is purposless torture as in trying to get information from sombody its just a destination that is arrived at by people with the perspective that heaven is hell.

[Ace Otana]

About weather hell is a literal or symbolic place the christian faith clearly desctibes it as a real physical place that is eternal seperation from God. It is my personal belief that those that go to hell were given the lifetime needed to make their decision about where they would choose to go. At the time of death whatever decision was made was the only decision that would have ever been made by that person. Even if given a million years on earth they would have still chosen to be apart from God. So God sends nobody to hell people choose to go there. The bible states that hell is seperation from god and also all good things come from god, so if god isnt there than nothing good is there either hence the flames and brimstone and whatnot. It even says that people in hell are still unrepentant so they still choose to be there as crazy as that sounds to me personally. So its not that is purposless torture as in trying to get information from sombody its just a destination that is arrived at by people with the perspective that heaven is hell.

Problem there of course is that as an atheist I don't believe that god or hell even exist. So I can't choose to go to a place I don't believe exists. Just as I haven't chosen to be apart from god. I don't believe in god to begin with. So the very statement that we chose that fate is untrue.

It's like me saying that you have chosen hel (yeah I spelt that right) instead of going to Valhalla and that you chose to be apart from Odin. But how can that be if you don't believe in such things?

If I end up in hell, it will be because I was sent there, not because I chose to go there. Just as if you ended up in Hades, you didn't chose to go there.

[Disciple]

About weather hell is a literal or symbolic place the christian faith clearly desctibes it as a real physical place that is eternal seperation from God. It is my personal belief that those that go to hell were given the lifetime needed to make their decision about where they would choose to go. At the time of death whatever decision was made was the only decision that would have ever been made by that person. Even if given a million years on earth they would have still chosen to be apart from God. So God sends nobody to hell people choose to go there. The bible states that hell is seperation from god and also all good things come from god, so if god isnt there than nothing good is there either hence the flames and brimstone and whatnot. It even says that people in hell are still unrepentant so they still choose to be there as crazy as that sounds to me personally. So its not that is purposless torture as in trying to get information from sombody its just a destination that is arrived at by people with the perspective that heaven is hell.

Problem there of course is that as an atheist I don't believe that god or hell even exist. So I can't choose to go to a place I don't believe exists. Just as I haven't chosen to be apart from god. I don't believe in god to begin with. So the very statement that we chose that fate is untrue.

It's like me saying that you have chosen hel (yeah I spelt that right) instead of going to Valhalla and that you chose to be apart from Odin. But how can that be if you don't believe in such things?

If I end up in hell, it will be because I was sent there, not because I chose to go there. Just as if you ended up in Hades, you didn't chose to go there.

Oh my ace i didnt mean to offend you. just putting in my 2 cents here. Im not asking you to subscribe to my beliefs or anything here boss. Im simply saying what I believe. Thats for me. They tell us as kids to look both ways before you cross the street. You can choose to not do it and believe that nothing is coming however, if it is, you are still gettin splatted if there is a car that is coming. reguardless if you believed it to be or not.