Christian group books anti-gay ads to appear on buses

[Aegrus]

As much as this disgusts me. . . I think it's their right to lie however they see fit. I'm against all censorship, even the well-applied censorships. If they rent ad space, we can't restrict how they use it. At a certain point, you have to trust people to look at the crazy, evil fundies and identify them as just that on their own, without needing the government or activist groups to do their thinking for them.

It's also my right to call fundies ignorant fuck-tards who deserve to die.

[Minimalist]

Why have they got it in for the gays anyway?

The ones I know seem fairly harmless.

Because they read in a stupid old book that they are "bad."

[Autumnlicious]

As much as this disgusts me. . . I think it's their right to lie however they see fit. I'm against all censorship, even the well-applied censorships. If they rent ad space, we can't restrict how they use it. At a certain point, you have to trust people to look at the crazy, evil fundies and identify them as just that on their own, without needing the government or activist groups to do their thinking for them.

It's also my right to call fundies ignorant fuck-tards who deserve to die.

Only a fucking moron would claim the right to lie, or a misguided libertarian with more beliefs than brains.

Take for example the current crapola with homeopathy and "alternative" medicine -- you have emotionally vulnerable people, some of which have cancer, being conned into paying money to dishonest crooks.

For the anti-censorship folks like you, the body count of Jenny McCarthy alone should provoke a change in position to realize that life isn't built out of absolutes but in actuality is a series of compromises and understandings.

Derp derp derp.

[Michelle_Patton]

So why is it that they're allowed to post this hatred on buses, but they go absolutely bat-shit when atheists try to post their message? Freedom of speech is only allowed when it's them doing the speaking?

Gee, hypocrisy from the god-botherers....that's never happened before.

[Autumnlicious]

So why is it that they're allowed to post this hatred on buses, but they go absolutely bat-shit when atheists try to post their message? Freedom of speech is only allowed when it's them doing the speaking?

Gee, hypocrisy from the god-botherers....that's never happened before.

Because to them, saying "It's ok not to believe in God" and "It's ok to be homosexual" is just as fine as saying "Not doing X is sinful".

Of course, they're too fucking stupid to realize that the second you imply a negative judgement on the people you're "targeting" as the ad, you've dun fucked up.

Saying "It's ok to try to be straight" is one thing.

Saying "It's a sin to be gay" is an entirely different statement with different sentiments. For starters, instead of targeting the group of people who've already desired to 'be straight', they're instead passing negative judgement on ALL homosexuals in an attempt to shame them into seeking therapy.

There is a word for that -- coercion.

That's definitively not advertising.

[Aegrus]

As much as this disgusts me. . . I think it's their right to lie however they see fit. I'm against all censorship, even the well-applied censorships. If they rent ad space, we can't restrict how they use it. At a certain point, you have to trust people to look at the crazy, evil fundies and identify them as just that on their own, without needing the government or activist groups to do their thinking for them.

It's also my right to call fundies ignorant fuck-tards who deserve to die.

Only a fucking moron would claim the right to lie, or a misguided libertarian with more beliefs than brains.

Take for example the current crapola with homeopathy and "alternative" medicine -- you have emotionally vulnerable people, some of which have cancer, being conned into paying money to dishonest crooks.

For the anti-censorship folks like you, the body count of Jenny McCarthy alone should provoke a change in position to realize that life isn't built out of absolutes but in actuality is a series of compromises and understandings.

Derp derp derp.

Censorship does nothing more than attempt to remove alternate points of view from an argument forcibly when they can't be logically bested. It's my belief that we- atheists- are correct, and the fundies are wrong. But what makes it okay to censor fundies- who we deem to be wrong or lieing, and not okay to censor any other group we believe to be wrong or lieing? You can't just try to remove views that you don't like. You aren't the absolute authority on correctness and morality- no one is- therefore no one can be trusted with the power to censor. It solves nothing, and that power has been misused far too often throughout history.

Fundies can be logically bested, so we have no need of censorship. Educate people with science. Show them that fundies are wrong. Let the majority declare the fundies disgusting and corrupt. Don't repeat history's mistakes and pretend opposing views don't exist.

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If fundies try to take it further, and actually harm people, then by all means, respond however you see fit. But it's fallacious and, frankly, stupid to assume that we must use censorship to stop the criminal results of bigotry.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

Censorship does nothing more than attempt to remove alternate points of view from an argument forcibly when they can't be logically bested. It's my belief that we- atheists- are correct, and the fundies are wrong. But what makes it okay to censor fundies- who we deem to be wrong or lieing, and not okay to censor any other group we believe to be wrong or lieing? You can't just try to remove views that you don't like. You aren't the absolute authority on correctness and morality- no one is- therefore no one can be trusted with the power to censor. It solves nothing, and that power has been misused far too often throughout history.

Fundies can be logically bested, so we have no need of censorship. Educate people with science. Show them that fundies are wrong. Let the majority declare the fundies disgusting and corrupt. Don't repeat history's mistakes and pretend opposing views don't exist.

Sadly, false. Do you really think that they'll listen to logic or science? They fight our laws, and we must fight theirs or be overwhelmed. No amount of logic will best bias, and it's bias that we therefore need to fight. If we remain silent and allow them to defame homosexuals, public opinion will be swayed and we'll lose a decade of progress overnight. People are idiots, and we can't fight bias with beliefs and heartfelt appeals to rationality. We need to stop them, even if your sad excuse for idealism is insulted by it.

[Aegrus]

Censorship does nothing more than attempt to remove alternate points of view from an argument forcibly when they can't be logically bested. It's my belief that we- atheists- are correct, and the fundies are wrong. But what makes it okay to censor fundies- who we deem to be wrong or lieing, and not okay to censor any other group we believe to be wrong or lieing? You can't just try to remove views that you don't like. You aren't the absolute authority on correctness and morality- no one is- therefore no one can be trusted with the power to censor. It solves nothing, and that power has been misused far too often throughout history.

Fundies can be logically bested, so we have no need of censorship. Educate people with science. Show them that fundies are wrong. Let the majority declare the fundies disgusting and corrupt. Don't repeat history's mistakes and pretend opposing views don't exist.

Sadly, false. Do you really think that they'll listen to logic or science? They fight our laws, and we must fight theirs or be overwhelmed. No amount of logic will best bias, and it's bias that we therefore need to fight. If we remain silent and allow them to defame homosexuals, public opinion will be swayed and we'll lose a decade of progress overnight. People are idiots, and we can't fight bias with beliefs and heartfelt appeals to rationality. We need to stop them, even if your sad excuse for idealism is insulted by it.

Fundies won't listen to logic or science. Most people will- easily enough for a majority, assuming we increase our efforts in educational fields and amp up our own propaganda. You make the arrogant mistake of assuming that the majority of people are blatant idiots, and that you're somehow superior to them.

You're simply better educated. If they are educated , they'll understand that we're correct.

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You say we must fight their laws- and that is correct. But this isn't a law. This is a privately sponsored ad on the side of a bus. It is nowhere near similar- a law mandates action. An ad gives a choice.

[R-e-n-n-a-t]

Do I have to spell it out for you? People listen to every ad they see. How long before it's illegal not to be "treated" for a "disorder" like homosexuality? Gay people are already routinely beat up and killed, and it will increase in severity and frequency with every homophobic ad that appears. Do you want their blood on your hands? Would you rather respect Hitler's right to hate Jews until he carries it into political office and does something with his hate?

You know well enough that the silent majority will remain moderate, and somewhat educated, but their numbers will slip to fundamentalism with enough idiotic posters and billboards.

[Aegrus]

Sadly, false. Do you really think that they'll listen to logic or science? They fight our laws, and we must fight theirs or be overwhelmed. No amount of logic will best bias, and it's bias that we therefore need to fight. If we remain silent and allow them to defame homosexuals, public opinion will be swayed and we'll lose a decade of progress overnight. People are idiots, and we can't fight bias with beliefs and heartfelt appeals to rationality. We need to stop them, even if your sad excuse for idealism is insulted by it.

I said nothing about remaining silent. Stop distorting my words. We will resist- just not in a way that infringes on their rights. (At least until they infringe on our rights- but this bus ad doesn't do that.)

It truly is stunning that you spend so much time arguing logically on this forum, only to completely turn around and cry without proof about imminent persecution justifying preemptive action and the futility of logic the moment it suits you. How very like a fundy.

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Do I have to spell it out for you? People listen to every ad they see. How long before it's illegal not to be "treated" for a "disorder" like homosexuality? Gay people are already routinely beat up and killed, and it will increase in severity and frequency with every homophobic ad that appears. Do you want their blood on your hands? Would you rather respect Hitler's right to hate Jews until he carries it into political office and does something with his hate?

People don't listen to every ad they see. How many times have you looked at a fundy ad and thought that it was ridiculously stupid? Many other people do the same- even moderates. Again, you display shocking arrogance.

As for Hitler- again- if Hitler arrives, fight Hitler. Don't create him because you think that it's in some cases okay to trample another person's right to freedom of speech.