Good reading for Christian Homophobes

[Drich]

Loving a person of the same sex romantically.

Which is Eros which includes passionate longing or desire which falls under what Christ says in Mt 5 about lusting after people.

Straight people think about sex before they get married and often do it. Are you proposing we outlaw that too? Only way to stand by your argument, really.

Again exactly the same scenario. It is simply identified as a sin. One that need to find repentance and forgiveness just like premarital hetro activity.

[Shell B]

That's not what this thread is about, Drich. For fuck's sake. You are arguing that sex before marriage is a sin. Nothing more, nothing less. We are talking about homosexuality as a separate sin. If you can't show that it is, you haven't a leg to stand on.

[Drich]

You gonna stone your wife if you can't prove she's a virgin? You going to treat your wife like she's property? I doubt it.

The Bible says degrades fuck loads of people; women, tax collectors, cripples, people with flat noses - these are all treated as equals, why can't you let the final piece of biblical bigotry die?

Holy smokes you can't be serious? Even after i explained this to you, you have defaulted back to your personal witch hunt of Christianity.

Look We are only identifying sin here. Just like anyother sin it needs to be dealt with. How does one do that? One repents (turns from said sin) and He seeks attonement. That's it.

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That's not what this thread is about, Drich. For fuck's sake. You are arguing that sex before marriage is a sin. Nothing more, nothing less. We are talking about homosexuality as a separate sin. If you can't show that it is, you haven't a leg to stand on.

It is a sin. one like anyother sexual sin. Why is it a sin? Because it is committed outside the confines of a santified marriage. Just like adultry, or pre marital sex, or lusting after someone is a sexual sin.

You can tell yourself what you like, but know in your heart, God sees homosexuality as a sin. One like anyother sexual sin. Which makes the OP's story pie in the sky wishful thinking just like I said.

[Jackalope]

Perhaps you should watch the news. In states where homosexual marriages are taking place churches who open their doors for community events (like non member marriages) are being sued to allow homosexual marriages to take place in their buildings. Citing discrimination.

You can sue a ham sandwich in civil court. When the day comes that they start winning such cases, guess what? I'll be on your side in objecting to the state's intrusion into your religion. Secular separation between church/state works both ways.

This is not say religions are being forced to marry gays it is saying that if a church opens it's doors for non church activities like bingo or non member marriages they will also be made to allow for non member gay marriages as well.

Again, please let us know when this actually occurs - and most of us will be on your side on that issue, I bet.

[Shell B]

So is sex between a man and woman outside of marriage, but men and women are allowed to get married, so why aren't gay people? You have yet to provide anything that says gay people can't get married. That is what this is about.

[genkaus]

Nope, just defining the act a sin. one like anyother.

Then why are you guys so up in the government's ass about gay marriage? That's bigotry. You let one class of citizen go free and punish others for the same categorical sin.

[Zen Badger]

It is a sin. one like anyother sexual sin. Why is it a sin? Because it is committed outside the confines of a santified marriage. Just like adultry, or pre marital sex, or lusting after someone is a sexual sin.

You can tell yourself what you like, but know in your heart, God sees homosexuality as a sin. One like anyother sexual sin. Which makes the OP's story pie in the sky wishful thinking just like I said.

So it's only a sin if if it is committed outside the confines of marriage?
So let gays get married and it's no longer a problem.

[Jackalope]

The whole "pre-marital sex is a sin" argument is a big fat red herring.

[zebo-the-fat]

Why can't the church keep it's nose out of other peoples business?
The pope tells poor people not to use contraception... this gives them large families which they can't afford to feed (he also ignores child molesting priests) Why should he make the rules when he doesn't play the game?

[Drich]

So is sex between a man and woman outside of marriage,

Which is what I have been saying since the beginning. (It is like anyother sexual sin. meaning sexual sin between man and woman.)

but men and women are allowed to get married, so why aren't gay people?

Outside of "Because God said so," I do not know/The bible does not say.

You have yet to provide anything that says gay people can't get married. That is what this is about.

I have said that a sanctified marriage is between man and woman as per 1 co 7. Being in a sanctified marriage is the only context in which sexual activity is sanctioned by God.

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All sex outside the confines of the covenant of marriage is a sin.(Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

Great. So what laws is the Christian right proposing to outlaw adultery and pre-marital sex? Is stoning going to be reinstated or are we going to use a firing squad as the new version?

I have answer this question 3 times now, why don't you guys try reading post other than your own.

In short Identifying homosexuality as a sin only has one purpose from a biblical stand point, and that is to have the sinner repent (turn from his sin) and seek attonement through the sacrifice Christ offered... Just like anyother sin.

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The whole "pre-marital sex is a sin" argument is a big fat red herring.

how so?

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Why can't the church keep it's nose out of other peoples business?
The pope tells poor people not to use contraception... this gives them large families which they can't afford to feed (he also ignores child molesting priests) Why should he make the rules when he doesn't play the game?

The question should be is the "pope" and the religion he repersents the only expression of Christianity?

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So it's only a sin if if it is committed outside the confines of marriage?
So let gays get married and it's no longer a problem.

Taken from the last person to ask this question:
Shell B Wrote: So, it makes premarital sex a sin. If you let gay people get married, which your quotes say nothing against, that would not be a problem.
Ok good! so now all you have to do is provide a context where the covenant of marriage is extended to same sex couples and your home free. If you can not, then know all homosexual activity outside the confines of a santified marriage is still a sin. Not the unforgivable sin like some think but still a sin never the less.


Quote:Again, show me where it says homosexuality is a sin.
I have, in that their is not a conext in the bible where it is permitted. Meaning if a Santified Marriage is the only context in which sex is permitted then every sexual act (Homosexual or not) is a sin. Homosexuals are no different then hetrosexuals in this regaurd.


Quote:Let's not assume every homosexual is having premarital sex so you can argue with that verse.
They are unless you can provide book chapter and verse that shows a same sex marriage as being santified before God.


Quote:Specifically, where does it say it? And . . . where does it say that men can't marry men and women can't marry women?
I am asserting that marriage is between a man and a woman. 1cor 7:2 I am also saying that sex outside of the santity of marriage is a sin: (Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; 10:8; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7). The Bible promotes complete abstinence before marriage. Sex between a husband and his wife is the only form of sexual relations of which God approves (Hebrews 13:4).

I am not saying anything else. If you think it is ok before God for a man to marry a man or a woman a woman then it is on you to show me book chapter and verse.

Homosexuality is a sin of sexual immorality just like everyother sexual sin. Why? Because like everyother sexual sin it is done outside the confines of a santified marriage.