Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: Where's the justice?
May 20, 2012 at 2:57 am
(May 19, 2012 at 1:06 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: So the 'criminal' gets rewarded in the end while the one that did nothing wrong (apart from indirect blasphemy of the holy spirit by not believing) is punished?
This is considered fair? Why doesn't the murderer get some sort of punishment, because that would be justice at work.
You're trying to make human justice and spiritual justice interchangeable. It doesn't work that way, God gave use laws or the reasoning to make laws for justice between humans. God's justice is keeping His word to mankind, faith in Christ is not a ticket to forgiveness, it is the narrow road that leads to forgiveness. There is no indirect blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's as simple as this faith in Christ and you will be forgiven, no faith in Christ no forgiveness. You can not mix human justice and God's spiritual justice through mercy.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 2610
Threads: 22
Joined: May 18, 2012
Reputation:
17
RE: Where's the justice?
May 20, 2012 at 3:09 am
(May 20, 2012 at 2:45 am)Welsh cake Wrote: (May 20, 2012 at 12:21 am)Polaris Wrote: I do believe that an eye for an eye is wrong. Ghandi famously said that mentality would leave the whole world blind. That is why I am going to push for the suspension of the death penalty in my state this year. You do that son.
I'll push for the reintroduction of Capital punishment in my country once we've escaped this dying European "Union" farce of a convention for the most exceptional and abominable acts against humanity.
You don't get to murder little children, live off my taxes in custody, and get parole in 10-20 twenty years only to commit the same fucking offence all over again. No fucking way. 
Well that is where I disagree with that system. I simply support life without possibility of parole for those who would otherwise be sent to death row.
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin.
Posts: 13392
Threads: 187
Joined: March 18, 2012
Reputation:
48
RE: Where's the justice?
May 20, 2012 at 1:20 pm
(This post was last modified: May 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm by Drich.)
The sin murder is classified under according to Christ in mat 5, is the same sin hate is classified under. So in essence hate and murder are the same sin in the eyes of God. Don't make the mistake of lessening the severity of murder to comprehend what is being said here. You need to elevate the hate to put it on par with murder. Now the fact that you have to change how you value these sins in order to comprehend what is being said, should give you some insight as to the dangerous nature of having a "morality" apart from God's stated righteousness. Primarily because we loose sight of God's stated values and replace them with our own based on popular culture. (that is why hate and murder are seperate in our eyes)
God's values say none are righteous, all have sinned, all have fallen short of the glory of God. While popular morality tells us we are all basically good people and only those who sin against the society we live in deserve sever punishment.
Posts: 3872
Threads: 39
Joined: August 25, 2008
Reputation:
43
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 3:51 am
What I find most sickening, is theists trying to rationalise people (many good people) being tortured. And not just rationalising torture but for the most trivial reasons.
That's just sick.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Posts: 13392
Threads: 187
Joined: March 18, 2012
Reputation:
48
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 8:23 am
(May 21, 2012 at 3:51 am)Ace Otana Wrote: What I find most sickening, is theists trying to rationalise people (many good people) being tortured. And not just rationalising torture but for the most trivial reasons.
That's just sick.
That's just it. There are no "good" people. Your idea of "good" is based on an ever downward spiraling, sliding scale. All one has to do to be deemed "good" in western culture is to not sin against the culture itself. It's like saying Oscar Shelindler was a good Nazi. Yes compared to his peers he was a good Nazi, but if you took his actions and compared them to someone outside his situation, he would have been thrown in jail. Because in the end he was still a Nazi who forced children into slavery, he was a war profiteer, and despite what the movie depicted more people died working for him than were saved by him.
"Good" is just an illusion based on all of the sin you are willing to accept and live with. We are told there are none who are "good." That is why all need to seek atonement for their sins.
Posts: 3872
Threads: 39
Joined: August 25, 2008
Reputation:
43
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 8:33 am
(This post was last modified: May 21, 2012 at 9:45 am by Ace Otana.)
(May 21, 2012 at 8:23 am)Drich Wrote: "Good" is just an illusion based on all of the sin you are willing to accept and live with. We are told there are none who are "good." That is why all need to seek atonement for their sins.
Sin is just a concept, friend. What I deem as a good person is one who is rational, kind, thoughtful at the very least. If people go to hell to be tortured then that is sick. Especially for such pathetic reasons like a lack of belief. I can't imagine any god could possibly be that stupid and irrational. At all.....
I can't believe people actually try to rationalise torture, especially for the most trivial of reasons.
So far you've argued about what's considered 'good' but not about the whole hell and torture thing. I'm assuming you are one of those who'd try to rationalise torture?
Question for theists - How would you feel if atheists went to heave as well? Even if they never believed in god?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 1:33 pm
(May 20, 2012 at 3:09 am)Polaris Wrote: Well that is where I disagree with that system. Screw parole for a minute. You don't think that the high-profile cases, the ones with overwhelming evidence to prosecute, the most exceptional and abominable crimes against humanity, hundreds to thousands, or thousands to millions of innocents killed, deserve the death penalty?
Posts: 157
Threads: 2
Joined: April 24, 2012
Reputation:
8
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 1:59 pm
There is no sense in the idea of justice. Nobody gets exactly what they deserve in any situation. Some get it worse, some have it better. Plus, if being "just" was a real concept, Christianity would know nothing of it anyhow. 
“Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self.” - Max Stirner.
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Ace Otana Wrote:Question for theists - How would you feel if atheists went to heave as well? Even if they never believed in god?
Like white southerners from the 50's being forced to desegregate their schools.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 3160
Threads: 56
Joined: February 14, 2012
Reputation:
39
RE: Where's the justice?
May 21, 2012 at 2:36 pm
(May 20, 2012 at 2:57 am)Godschild Wrote: (May 19, 2012 at 1:06 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: So the 'criminal' gets rewarded in the end while the one that did nothing wrong (apart from indirect blasphemy of the holy spirit by not believing) is punished?
This is considered fair? Why doesn't the murderer get some sort of punishment, because that would be justice at work.
You're trying to make human justice and spiritual justice interchangeable. It doesn't work that way, God gave use laws or the reasoning to make laws for justice between humans. God's justice is keeping His word to mankind, faith in Christ is not a ticket to forgiveness, it is the narrow road that leads to forgiveness. There is no indirect blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's as simple as this faith in Christ and you will be forgiven, no faith in Christ no forgiveness. You can not mix human justice and God's spiritual justice through mercy.
But apparantly you can change the definition of justice to mean whatever you see fit, eh Godschild?
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
|
