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RE: Science + Creation
June 7, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I don't think it's possible to twist Genesis 1 any further than they did.... Genesis says that birds were created alongside fish (In the theory of evolution, birds came long after the first land animals) and that the moon, sun and stars were created after plants and the earth (There, they say that it was actually saying the sun, moon, and stars became VISIBLE then, but were formed long before that, reading Genesis though doesn't seem to support that idea where it said that was when God made the sun, moon, and stars.)
This is one of those cases where you could twist just about any creation narrative to fit science if you twisted it as much as these guys did Genesis. Then again, it is just a fiction movie, what else should one expect?
I like what one commenter said "If we can't take the word 'day' literally in the Bible how can one take any word literally? I thought Gods word was "perfect"? Why must we interpret and decode?" Really, what about the people who didn't believe the bible because it didn't line up with science, but in reality they just hadn't figured out what it REALLY meant yet? Are they going to hell? It wasn't their fault we hadn't figured out how to "decode" the bible yet.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 8:46 am
(June 7, 2012 at 11:39 am)Aiza Wrote: It comes with something FAR better, Epimethean!
It comes with a Holy Magisterium. 
That being said, its not hard just from a literary standpoint to understand the differences between allegory and something meant to be taken as historical.
The you wouldn't have any problem with me considering the entire bible, cover to cover, including god..allegory, right? Gods and magic clearly aren't history (and have a hell of alot more to say if they are not considered as history) and the "histories" aren't history either, what with none of that shit ever happening.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 9:31 am
(June 8, 2012 at 8:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: "histories" aren't history either, what with none of that shit ever happening.
If you open the Babbles put into hotel rooms you will notice they have several Tables of Contents. These break the book down by category. One category is noted as "Historical Highlights". This lists such farcical bullshit as the creation of Adam, the fall of man, the expulsion from the Garden, Jesus rising up from the dead, etc, etc... I always circle the words "Historical Highlights" and add a comment such as "LIKE THIS SHIT REALLY HAPPENED?!?!? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 4:40 pm
(June 8, 2012 at 8:46 am)Rhythm Wrote: The you wouldn't have any problem with me considering the entire bible, cover to cover, including god..allegory, right? It depends on what you mean by "problem". You aren't a Christian, let alone Catholic, and you can see the Bible as you will. It isn't all allegory though.
Quote: Gods and magic clearly aren't history (and have a hell of alot more to say if they are not considered as history) and the "histories" aren't history either, what with none of that shit ever happening.
Reallly? -None- of it -ever- happened? Modern historians would disagree. Some of the histories are embellished as was the case for most histories written in that time. That is different from "allegory" though.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 4:50 pm
(This post was last modified: June 8, 2012 at 4:53 pm by Anomalocaris.)
I smell a flood tide of sophistry coming.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 5:06 pm
(June 8, 2012 at 4:40 pm)Aiza Wrote: Reallly? -None- of it -ever- happened? Modern historians would disagree. Some of the histories are embellished as was the case for most histories written in that time. That is different from "allegory" though.
So you admit that some of the crap in the Babble is "embellished". Why would that be if the Babble is the inspired word of "God"? Wouldn't the words of this deity been recorded as he spoke them? And if you admit some things are embellished, how are we to know what was embellished and to what degree? This means the entire book must be called into question! It also throw a monkey wrench into the beliefs of the brain addled who think every word of the Babble is true.
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 9:39 pm
(June 8, 2012 at 5:06 pm)Thor Wrote: So you admit that some of the crap in the Babble is "embellished". "Admit" is a bit of a loaded term. Is this an interrogation, Thor? 
Quote:Why would that be if the Babble is the inspired word of "God"?
Because you are focusing on spiritual truth and not physical events.
Quote: Wouldn't the words of this deity been recorded as he spoke them?
What? When people say that Scripture is the "Word of God" they do not mean that God actually physically said these words to people and then they wrote them down. Some of the books are written in first person, ffs. That is not what "inspired" means.
Quote:And if you admit some things are embellished, how are we to know what was embellished and to what degree?
Usually though historical analysis. Its impossible to tell fully either way, but that's not why Scripture is important.
Quote:This means the entire book must be called into question!
No it doesn't.  Also the Bible is not a single book, it is ~73 Books of a whole slew of genres over many hundreds of years.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 8, 2012 at 10:40 pm
"What? When people say that Scripture is the "Word of God" they do not mean that God actually physically said these words to people and then they wrote them down. Some of the books are written in first person, ffs. That is not what "inspired" means."
So we can dispense with the inspired word of god rubbish at last. You admit that mankind made up the text.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Science + Creation
June 9, 2012 at 1:44 am
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2012 at 1:45 am by Cato.)
[quote='Aiza' pid='296723' dateline='1339188058']
It depends on what you mean by "problem". You aren't a Christian, let alone Catholic, and you can see the Bible as you will. It isn't all allegory though.[quote]
"You aren't a Christian, let alone Catholic,"? What the hell is this supposed to mean? You aren't really christian unless you're catholic?
Spare me any superiority complex that comes with this attitude. I can guarantee I've logged just as many, if not more, ccd hours.
Is there a definitive sage that can let us all know which parts of the bible are allegory and which parts aren't? I suppose this depends on the guy behind the pulpit since I have never been given any more objective means of deciding. You do know that there are over 30k+ denominations of christianity, right? This seems odd for people that belive that christ is the one true path to god; all using the same book. Even if I only listen to 5 of 30,000, what am I supposed to make of this? God was this ambiguous?
Don't get too cute in a reply (being smug won't help either).
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RE: Science + Creation
June 9, 2012 at 6:11 pm
What parts of the "historical narratives" do you believe actually occurred?
It -is- all allegory.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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