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RE: Science + Creation
June 9, 2012 at 9:29 pm
The New Testament was written in the Hellenistic period where philosophy was rampant. People like Philo even left behind works that took the OT and interpreted them 100% allegorically.
During my semester break I'm going to write about my research (hopefully) showing that the Gospel authors were Greek philosophers.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Science + Creation
June 9, 2012 at 10:27 pm
(June 9, 2012 at 1:44 am)cato123 Wrote: "You aren't a Christian, let alone Catholic,"? What the hell is this supposed to mean? You aren't really christian unless you're catholic? No, of course not. If I thought Christian and Catholic were synonymous, that sentence would make no sense.
Christians believe all sorts of things about the Bible. The only denomination with which I can certainly say there is a "problem" with interpreting everything allegorically is Catholicism, the largest and oldest Christian denomination, which still represents a majority of all Christians.
Literary analysis is really most of what you need to know what parts of the Bible are allegory, but yes--the "definitive sage" as you say, is the Holy Magisterium, those leaders of the Church who are the direct successors of the Apostles themselves (especially St. Peter). There are 3 pillars to the (traditional) Christian Faith: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Holy Magisterium. There are thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations because they all claim to follow "Sacred Scripture" but since they eschew the Magisterium and Tradition there is nothing to keep their beliefs on track--the whole basis of Protestantism is breaking off with those who disagree with you. If you are a liberal you can make up liberal beliefs which suit you, and if you are a conservative you can make up conservative beliefs which suit you, and there are even things like "atheist Christians" or "objectivist Christians" etc. 
I personally don't think there is much ambiguity at all. "You are Peter and on this rock I build my Church". There is only one Church which even claims succession from St. Peter, and it just so happens to be the very same Church that existed throughout the Classical and Middle ages before Protestantism.
Also the Bible is not a book, it is 72 books....but no, not all Christians do use the same books in their "Bible". Protestants use a bit less, and various Orthodox churches use more.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2012 at 11:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
This track you're talking about, is that also immaterial? Because no one can seem to find it....
(aren't there some rumblings about the Petrine passage being a forgery btw?)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 12:16 am
(June 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm)Rhythm Wrote: This track you're talking about, is that also immaterial? Because no one can seem to find it.... The track is the link to the Apostolic Tradition, which the Catholic Church has and always has had.
Protestants can splinter at every provocation since they only have 1/3 of the pillars of the Church and only half of the deposit of Faith. The Catholic Church (which recognize all three pillars of the Church), is a single body even though it has lasted much longer than any.
Quote:(aren't there some rumblings about the Petrine passage being a forgery btw?)
Lol no, not at all. Either way not everything needs to be in the Bible. I hope you realize that Scripture is a product of the Church (not vice versa), and the Christian religion itself pre-dates the Bible.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 12:20 am
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2012 at 12:21 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Yet another claim made about a track which you cannot show to anyone..lol. Maybe you misunderstood my question. Can you demonstrate that this is the proper path, or that there is a path at all. I concede that there are claims, yours is simply another claim in that vast sea of bullshit. There are rocks in my backyard that are older than the church, that have maintained their integrity better than the church. Those rocks must be the right track?
Not even a little bit, so if I googled it I wouldn't find anything?
(maybe you should google it before you respond....)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 12:22 am
The universe was created by a guy named Phil he works at the auto shop over on 8th st
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 1:29 am
(June 10, 2012 at 12:20 am)Rhythm Wrote: Yet another claim made about a track which you cannot show to anyone..lol. Maybe you misunderstood my question. Can you demonstrate that this is the proper path, or that there is a path at all. I concede that there are claims, yours is simply another claim in that vast sea of bullshit. There are rocks in my backyard that are older than the church, that have maintained their integrity better than the church. Those rocks must be the right track?
Not even a little bit, so if I googled it I wouldn't find anything?
(maybe you should google it before you respond....)
Maybe you should google the definition of the word "track".
I can certainly demonstrate its the proper path within context of Christianity, because of the Four Marks of the Church, making that whole bizarre "30k denominations" aside rather silly. My post to cato was specifically with respect to Christian traditions, not with respect to rocks or whatever else you are on about here. Sorry.
Mary Immaculate, star of the morning
Chosen before the creation began
Chosen to bring for your bridal adorning
Woe to the serpent and rescue to man.
Sinners, we honor your sinless perfection;
Fallen and weak, for your pity we plead;
Grand us the shield of your sovereign protection,
Measure your aid by the depth of our need.
Bend from your throne at the voice of our crying,
Bend to this earth which your footsteps have trod;
Stretch out your arms to us, living and dying,
Mary Immaculate, Mother of God.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 7:08 am
(June 9, 2012 at 10:27 pm)Aiza Wrote: (June 9, 2012 at 1:44 am)cato123 Wrote: "You aren't a Christian, let alone Catholic,"? What the hell is this supposed to mean? You aren't really christian unless you're catholic? No, of course not. If I thought Christian and Catholic were synonymous, that sentence would make no sense.
Christians believe all sorts of things about the Bible. The only denomination with which I can certainly say there is a "problem" with interpreting everything allegorically is Catholicism, the largest and oldest Christian denomination, which still represents a majority of all Christians.
Literary analysis is really most of what you need to know what parts of the Bible are allegory, but yes--the "definitive sage" as you say, is the Holy Magisterium, those leaders of the Church who are the direct successors of the Apostles themselves (especially St. Peter). There are 3 pillars to the (traditional) Christian Faith: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Holy Magisterium. There are thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations because they all claim to follow "Sacred Scripture" but since they eschew the Magisterium and Tradition there is nothing to keep their beliefs on track--the whole basis of Protestantism is breaking off with those who disagree with you. If you are a liberal you can make up liberal beliefs which suit you, and if you are a conservative you can make up conservative beliefs which suit you, and there are even things like "atheist Christians" or "objectivist Christians" etc.
I personally don't think there is much ambiguity at all. "You are Peter and on this rock I build my Church". There is only one Church which even claims succession from St. Peter, and it just so happens to be the very same Church that existed throughout the Classical and Middle ages before Protestantism.
Peter means rock in Hebrew so it is perfectly possible that this quote is actually jesus making a bad pun.
Also the Bible is not a book, it is 72 books....but no, not all Christians do use the same books in their "Bible". Protestants use a bit less, and various Orthodox churches use more.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 7:35 am
(June 10, 2012 at 12:22 am)cratehorus Wrote: The universe was created by a guy named Phil he works at the auto shop over on 8th st
I know that guy, he owes me money. 
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Science + Creation
June 10, 2012 at 9:25 am
(This post was last modified: June 10, 2012 at 9:28 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Practicing our willfully obtuse song and dance? To show that your beliefs have been "kept on track" you'd have to demonstrate that such a track exists in the first place, which I'm guessing that you wont/can't. Don't tell me you can "certainly demonstrate it", do so. I have an aversion to platitudes, you seem to think your statements mean something when they clearly don't. If the longevity and integrity of any given thing is a testament to it's being "on track" then my rocks are superior to your "rock". Since we were playing word games I figured I'd show you how it's done.
(did you get around to googling the forgery you've pinned your statements to yet?)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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