Rant of logic: There is no such thing as a "Christian"

[fr0d0]

Nice OP GateofZion. I found it quite inspiring. I'm not too discouraged though, because I view those as aims, and not qualifications. I'm pretty confident that another Jesus doesn't exist too.

[Mister Agenda]

Do you practice what you are preaching here, I bet not, I bet not even close. I could list many things I've done to help those in need, then you would respond that I was bragging.

I could list many things I've done to help those in need, then you would respond that I was bragging.

Know what I think of you and the others that return negative comments, you hate it when others help people in need, if you do not believe me go read your comments with honesty.

I love it when anyone helps those in need.

What you are promoting is socialistic state, yes there are many who live under socialism and it just does not work.

Not at all. I am suggesting that if you're sincere in your belief that the fate of your eternal soul is on the line, you might consider trying to follow the example of Jesus and the early Christians voluntarily. I didn't say anything about anyone being forced to give more than they are willing to or about the government owning the means of production. It's not your generosity that I doubt, it's your commitment to living your life in such a way as to maximize the likelihood you'll find yourself among the saved.

Not true, when people do not earn things, they have no ambition to help themselves, just look at the welfare program in the US, we now have three generations of the same families living on the backs of good hard working citizens, helping is one thing, enabling is plain wrong.

No one's asking you to enable. No one's asking you to do it like the welfare system does. If you have firm ideas on what sort of help the poor really need to improve their situation, then you know exactly how to spend your money to do so.

It's better to give people the ability to help themselves than to hand them stuff. Those who have immediate needs, those needs need to be meet by us.

Now you're making excuses not to give more. Excuses based on politics are irrelevant. No one is dictating on how you should give or how much. The only relevant issue in this conversation is whether truly following the teachings of Jesus implies that you devote the excess beyond what you need to live decently and keep your employment. If you don't believe that, just say so.

Since only Christians understand the need for spiritual needs through Christ there's no need to say any more.

Yes, the only people in the world are Christians and atheists....

Do you give all you things away, are you an enabler, one plate, cook pot, fork, spoon, knife to supply you eating needs, bet you have more.

It's possible to constructively help people without enabling them. I don't agree with the teaching of Jesus and the early Christians that all my excess above what I absolutely need should be given to the poor. Do you?

You do not even understand the statement I made, so who are you to judge me, you have no idea how much I do for others, until you learn work on your own problems.

I gauge how entitled I am to judge someone based on how judgemental they are, so you're pretty near the top of my list of who I'm entitled to judge right now.

According to you, depending on God is the smarter choice IMO.

Then why don't you do that instead of preparing for contingencies?

Besides I never said that one should not look forward to tomorrow, I said one should not worry about tomorrow.

Buying insurance isn't looking forward to tomorrow, it's making sure you have extra resources in case something bad happens.

Were you a sincere believer, you would see and understand the teachings of Christ. Your talking like one who needs to do works to be sure, that's why the study of scripture is so important, self pride detracts from our God, having pride in things accomplished for good helps keep people interested in their work. Humility is understanding that God has given you the ability to accomplish things and that the gift you have is your's by grace, Christian or not. If you do not believe in God it is impossible for you to be humble in His eyes.

If you think you have a special understanding of the teachings of Christ, you're not humble in anyone's eyes.

I have not said I live up to Christ's standards, actually far from it, I try and many times I fail, that is exactly why I need Him.

Hint: laying off judging others so much is one of the things you need him to help you work on.

I have not tied to defend not giving all my stuff away, actually I have not drawn a paycheck in over a year, and I still give where I see needs that are important. He is the one who keeps bringing treasures in heaven like they were physical riches, which they are not, all our needs will be met and even more. If you were a sincere believer you would know this.

I don't have to be a sincere believer to know that advocating giving things away to help those in need is not being materialistic. I just have to not be an idiot.

God does not give everyone the same missions in their lives, some are to give off their time, or talents, others of their wealth that God has bless them with. If Christians are doing this they are humbling doing for others, unlike these non profit organizations who pay people 100s of thousands of dollars of the top of what they collect.

Ah, the teachings of Jesus are like a Chinese menu, you're not expected to follow all of them. You really do have a special understanding of the teachings of Jesus.

As far as salvation goes, yes, the scriptures are quite clear on this, Christ himself said only through Him and being God He would know for certain.

I'm pretty sure that, nevertheless, he recommended giving everything you don't really need to the poor. Maybe that's not a requirement for salvation so you can ignore it.

I think you are ignorant, ignorant of the fact that you and he are not Christians and you can not see the spiritual parts of God's work, so why try to explain, I've tried for two years and no one will open their ears.

You've tried for two years and still think you know where your talents lie? Why do you guys never try to be the kind of people anyone would want to be like? After two years, no one goes, hey, Godschild, I don't agree with him but you've got to admit he's sincerely trying to be as Christlike as he can. We could have been saying that, but that's not how you've chosen to spend your time here.

God said, a man must live a perfectly sinless life to receive a place in heaven, those slip ups you mentioned they are sins also, sins that unforgiven will put one in hell.

Maybe you should consider apologizing for them.

God is the One saying a person must be perfect. Christ taught these thing so we could be better people, but living by these teachings without a real belief in Christ will not help you get into heaven, received grace through faith is one's only way into heaven, through this faith one will be seen as perfect, why, because Christ will be standing in front of us, it will be Christ's perfection the Father will see.

I don't see that you're making much of an effort. How much do you get to coast and still get in?

You have read enough of my post to know that's not what I was saying, unless you're that dumb, which I do not believe. What I do know is this , you like controversy, so you will make statements to bring it about. Not impressed either.

You're right, I knew you were just preaching. I shouldn't give you a hard time about it, it's not like you made any agreement to not indulge in it with us.

That's awesome. So simple and yet so many miss out and that's sad.

You don't seem like you've got something awesome in your life. You seem like you like having something in your life that lets you feel like your better than people who don't agree with you.

If any man tries to get to heaven on his/her opinion, well what can I say, they want. If one earns their way into heaven one would boast and could say to God see I did this, same problem Lucifer had.

We're not trying to get into heaven. We help people because we want to.

Your info is wrong, there is no way 80% of America is Christian, not even close. I would be surprised if it were 30%.

Take it up with the people who say they're Christian in the polls.

I do not see the Church braggin', that's your over worked imagination at work.

Then let me hear you say it: Christians aren't special when it comes to helping the poor. Can YOU resist bragging about it?

So, when the likes of Bill Gates makes a huge public announcement he's giving away his money that's humble, right-o, Hollywood stars and all the like are on TV all the time spouting what they do, humble right.

I don't care why people give or how humble about it they are. I'm just glad they give.

You all criticize Christians all the time about not doing for others, it's you who have no idea of what we do and that's the way we want it.

We're not criticizing them for not giving. We're critcizing them for not living up to their own teachings while telling others we need to be like them or go to hell.

I will tell you this, if the Church quite doing what we do, the government could not raise enough money to accomplish the same work, nor could they find the people to do it for the same small wage most get for doing this work.

Believe it or not, countries that are predominantly humanist manage to do at least as well as the USA at helping the poor.

Most missionaries have to raise the money they need and pay for the college education they need to go serve over seas, most live at a poverty level.

That's great. They're setting a good example. You are too, I'm sure, but theirs is up to NT standards.

On a side note, I hope you find work soon. I know it's rough out there.

[Mister Agenda]

Giving your belongings to the poor is a mark of perfection. If you read that part in context, the first thing Our Lord is the basics, then when the young man asks "what else?" he gives the part about giving all that you own.

Many Christians already do this. It is a mark of religious life.

I totally get not being able to live up to an ideal. It's the denial that it is a Biblical ideal that I'm having trouble with, especially with the blame-the-poor rhetoric that's coming along with it.

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In Peter Singer's book, The Life You Can Save, he argues that it is an ethical imperative for citizens of developed countries to give more to help the poor. He donates 25% of his salary to Oxfam and Unicef. He says that '...there is some poverty we can prevent without sacrificing anything of comparable moral significance, therefore we ought to try to prevent some absolute poverty'. The $10 I spend to see a movie can feed a family in famine-struck portion of East Africa for a week. Even if I thought American poor people aren't that poor and that it's their own fault, there are still children dying at an alarming rate through no fault of their own. So I struggle with my conscience: I don't know of a moral argument that justfies my going to the movie instead of giving that to Camfed or Oxfam or Unicef or in savings so I can leave an estate to charity. I have to admit that I'm choosing to do something much more trivial with my $10 when I see a movie when I could be doing something really significant with it.

[Godscreated]

@ Mister Agenda, I can not believe how much of your own opinion you've read into my statements, since you want my statements to say what you desire I see no need in answering, it would on be fruitless, even though I want to answer it just seems it would be a waste of time.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Everything you say is a waste of time because you are full of shite.

[Undeceived]

We should not be arguing about what Christians do or do not do. I am Christian because of what I can't do--be a perfectly moral person. I am weak and I am selfish. As a Christian, I recognize I need Jesus to make me perfect. The steps should go like this:
1. Believe Jesus is the son of God and died for my sins.
2. Be sorry for my sins and attempt to stop doing them (repent). Make an effort to replace my hate with love.
If you truly believe 1, it will lead to 2.

[Epimethean]

OK. So how should we atheists deal with you, given the divide between our perspectives?

[Whore Of Babylon]

There are some Christians out there in Kansas...I was thinking about this yesterday. I ranted about it to my word processor..

Will someone please explain to me why the Westboro Baptist Church is not representative of Christianity? I asked the Yahoo! Answers community this question (it was quick) and was not at all surprised by the responses I received. Although I worded myself clearly, each and every "answer" I read consisted of whether or not the user agreed with
them. Many even said that they shared their extreme stance on homosexuality, but drew the line at picketing soldiers' funerals.The group is seen as a hate group by most Americans for the same reason people turn to hospitals over prayer. Over the years, people began to notice
that telekinetically communicating to their deity was far less successful in alleviating illnesses than allowing for a mortal physician to diagnose and treat them. Said people have become less Christian because they have gained knowledge through experience. They reject some of the words of a group of Ancient Middle-Eastern peasents, but, unfortunately, still accept the rest. But just because the Kansas church is not representative of the views most contemporary Christians hold doesn't mean they don't firmly adhere to the Bible.
I get tired of hearing people say that Westboro Baptist is not interpreting the bible correctly. As is with many other novels, the bible has dozens of different versions. Two of the primary versions are the King James version, completed in 1611, and the New International version, published in the 20th century.

Leviticus 18:22

-King James: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is
abomination."

-New International : "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one
does with a woman; that is detestable."

How can they be interpreting this passage wrong? Did ‘abomination’ have a different meaning in the 17th century? How about the word ‘not’?
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I read somewhere that a priest discredits signs the second he sees the words "God Hates.." because God is not even capable of it.

Romans 9:13

-King James: “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated"

-New International: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”


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When I peered outside to see the wind begin to pick up as Hurricane Sandy crept closer to my home state, I jokingly said to the person next to me that this was the result of gay marriage. Well, it was written in the bible that God does, at least, control the weather.

Isaiah 45:5-7

-King James: “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”

-New International: “I form the light and create darkness,I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.”

Although God is capable of anything, storms such as hurricanes follow a predictable, measurable pattern. You’d think he’d have a greater arsenal and we’d be hitwith something entirely new by now with all these homosexual acts we are “enabling”. Why doesn’t the truth make sense? Say there IS the god looking down on us that was outlined before we knew the Earth was round, is it not possible that, along with his existence, there are things called storms? No? Then the Bible is entirely fiction. Just like that. I know it is impossible to dismiss something as ludicrous when you actually believe the fate of your eternity hangs in the balance, but buying into something out of fear is why the Middle East is as backward as it is and why Islamic Jihad likely be a problem for as long as human beings exist.
I always hear that the Westboro Baptist Church cannot be used as ammunition by atheists. Why not? It is Christianity in all it’s glory. The church members are, just as they say, true Christians. The reason that most contemporary Christians view their actions as wrong is
because THEY ARE CLEARLY WRONG. You know that sickening feeling that comes with watching them protest the funerals of soldiers who died overseas? That feeling (although not as intense) should not be dismissed when readingthat someone rounded up all the species in the world and put them on a boat because the earth was about to be flooded (again with the storms, God! why everyone couldn’t just instantaneously be eliminated is beyond me..I guess that’d be less dramatic.) It is CLEARY WRONG. It never happened. I mean, shouldn’t someone begin to notice a trend by that story? The WBC is the American equivalent of
conservative Islam in that it follows its holy book word for word. This also has me thinking- what is the difference between a cult and a church? A wizard and a prophet?

[fr0d0]

The ignorance of the WBC narrowly surpasses your own. They, of course, do a great deal of damage. Moral of the story: ignorance can be harmful. Wise up or you might be as bad as them.

[Creed of Heresy]

The ignorance of the WBC narrowly surpasses your own. They, of course, do a great deal of damage. Moral of the story: ignorance can be harmful. Wise up or you might be as bad as them.

How is he being ignorant at all? He just quoted a half-dozen scriptures showing exactly why the WBC is VERY Christian despite the unctuous modern age majority of Christians claiming otherwise.

Hilariously, the WBC would have been considered the moderate normality about 1000 years ago in any Christianized nation. But now in the modern age, that secular ideas of morality have usurped the biblical ones, now Christians are MUCH more peaceful and critical of those who once were oft considered "more devout" than the rest.

Ignorance is not pointing out exactly how someone is wrong. Ignorance is when you are shown to be wrong and your response is to IGNORE the evidence and play pretend. Ignorance, dear Fr0do, is what you are displaying.