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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:47 am
I thought I had a typo, but I did not.
I said if someone believes what Papias said, they can use it as evidence. I don't believe that Mark is reliable for several reasons. I was basically playing devil's advocate, but only trying to show that something was possible.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you" (1 Peter 3:15).
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2012 at 9:52 am by Epimethean.)
I think the issue at stake is Micah's lack of understanding of the difference between what are called "vivid" or "real" conditionals and what are called "irreal" or "contrafactual" conditionals. The fact that many here followed the suggestion of logic in the conditional statement shows that many are wired to notice the difference.
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:50 am
Your deconstruction does not show how you think I believe that Mark is reliable.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you" (1 Peter 3:15).
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:52 am
Read my last post.
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:53 am
I did. And I do not see how you think that I believe that Mark is reliable.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you" (1 Peter 3:15).
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 9:55 am
I need to have some coffee before I explain how conditional sentences operate.
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 10:00 am
I actually think that it doesn't matter how they operate.
I stated multiple times in multiple places that I do not believe that Mark is reliable. I never said that it was reliable. I qualified every instance by using "If.."
What else matters? All that we are discussing is whether or not I think Mark is reliable. And this thread shows that I do not.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you" (1 Peter 3:15).
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 11:18 am
(June 30, 2012 at 10:00 am)Micah Wrote: I actually think that it doesn't matter how they operate.
I stated multiple times in multiple places that I do not believe that Mark is reliable. I never said that it was reliable. I qualified every instance by using "If.."
What else matters? All that we are discussing is whether or not I think Mark is reliable. And this thread shows that I do not.
I'm going to change the subject for a moment from whether or not you consider Mark reliable and ask you a question.
Do you believe that of all the 1000's of god claims made by humanity throughout history, that if one of them is true, it is most likely to be Christianity?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 2:38 pm
(This post was last modified: June 30, 2012 at 2:51 pm by Norfolk And Chance.)
Has he shut up yet?
(June 30, 2012 at 8:47 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Yes Norfolk, wild fantasy. Own your own claims.
The difference between us is that I logically justify mine
Start by logically justifying how you are not a bollock brained dullard, and we can work from there...
On a serious note, I do not recall you logically justifying anything ever, especially your favourite god/non empirical catchphrase, which sees you completely owned by somebody or other, every time you say it.
You are currently experiencing a lucky and very brief window of awareness, sandwiched in between two periods of timeless and utter nothingness. So why not make the most of it, and stop wasting your life away trying to convince other people that there is something else? The reality is obvious.
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RE: The debate is over
June 30, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Has there even been anything truly intellectually worthwhile said by a religious person on the topic of religion? That is to say, have they ever made a serious bid to defend their position?
That would be something I would really enjoy, regardless of whether or not I got to participate...
My conclusion is that there is no reason to believe any of the dogmas of traditional theology and, further, that there is no reason to wish that they were true.
Man, in so far as he is not subject to natural forces, is free to work out his own destiny. The responsibility is his, and so is the opportunity.
-Bertrand Russell
