(July 7, 2012 at 10:22 pm)Tempus Wrote: Yeah, trivial 'stuff'. Like enough to eat. Or an education.
Exactly!
Quote:ETA: If a parent deliberately arranged the circumstances of one of their own children's starvation they'd have their children taken away from them. If a parent could alleviate the suffering - even if the parent wasn't directly responsible for the situation - but chose not to, that still doesn't absolve them of any wrong doing. If you see a pram that's rolled in front of traffic, you pull it out. You don't fucking leave it there and shrug your shoulders saying "oh it was the parents' fault for being inattentive! It's their problem!"
What if a parent leaves their adult son in charge of the house hold and that son squanders the resources of the house hold rather than feed his own brother? Because that is exactly what has happened here. If people starve it is because of 'us' who are in abundance do not share what they have in excess. If your analogy had any chance of being relevent to this situation, the 'parent' would have to have left ALL His Children with out food. Which is not the case. The store houses runs over, and yet our brothers starve. Is it the fault of the 'parent' who saw to filling said store houses? Or the worthless Adult children who were put in charge of said store houses, and were commissioned to distribute the Father's wealth? Rather than distribute what has been given these worthless children point to what they have deemed as a 'lack of love' because not every corner of the father's lands are filled to over flowing. Again that is why the commission was given to distribute the excess to those who have none.
(July 8, 2012 at 12:30 am)cato123 Wrote: (July 7, 2012 at 2:24 am)Godschild Wrote: You should know better than that, I believed you knew scriptures better than that, I'm actually disappointed. If you are going down this road about God then why do you not tell those you pretend to worship with the truth. You do not because the truth is not in you, unbelievers do not and can not live as Christians of the light of truth do. Keep on waiting and these people you consider friends (why I do not know, you think they are stupid for what they believe don't you) will turn away from you in a heart beat, they we see you as a betrayer of their love for you. Mark my words it will happen. I say this to you for your friends sake, not yours.
All those children who starve to death in Africa will be in heaven, God has made provision for them. Again shame on you.
I do know better. I claim that you don't know better. Tell me 'Christian of the light' why you choose Paul's teachings in Acts 15 in favor of what Christ said in Matthew 5:18? Was the word of god not good enough?
Before you dive into the apologetic orgasim that divides the law into moral, ceremonial and judicial apsects; you must concede that Christ made no such distinction. Paul and Barnabas allowed the transgressions, not Christ.
If you had any intellectual integrity you would label yourself a Paulist, not a Christian.
Maybe you can help me out. How does
any of the teachings of Paul contradict the teaching of Christ in Mat 5:18
(July 7, 2012 at 10:37 pm)FallentoReason Wrote: Because for God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
There's the answer to both your questions.
The following is taken from:http://atheistforums.org/thread-12703.html
God does not love you...
.. As you understand the word to mean in modern English. Most of the questions I see here on this web site are centered around "How can an all loving God ________, or How can unconditional love allow for _________??"
The word in the original Greek that describes the type of love God offers is Agape'. The Word Agape is one of four Koine Greek words that all get translated into the word "love" into the English.
Agape' is unique to God in that it is a chosen or conditional love given a set of criteria or circumstances. That criteria is that we Accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, that atones for sin, and that we forgive those who sin against us as we sin against God. Once those criteria have been met, then we can experience boundless Agape' love.
Those being found outside of the Love offered are subject to wrath, the full consequence of sin, and/or the gambit of things you all like to point out as being outside the "love" of God.
So again, God's love is not unconditional, and it is not forced upon everyone. It is conditional, but for those who fall with in those conditions it will be boundless.
And this from post 14:
Do you not understand the OP? I am saying God loves, just not unconditionally as most of you think. I have pointed out that the Love of God "Agape" Is very conditional. Your verses prove that.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16
This is the condition of God's love is it not? God loved the world so much that He did this________ Next comes the condition: That who so ever believes in Him.... This condition make God's love conditional. which supports "my teaching."
Lets look at 1 John 2 in it's proper context and not just one line:
2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
7 Brethren,[a] I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.[b] 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.
9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
It seems to me that John is also showing us the conditions of our love for God/God's love for us, is dependent on how we live our lives.
The primary message being that yes God offers love to the whole world but under certain conditions and not this understanding of unconditional love most of you have demanded of God.
