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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 9:49 pm
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2012 at 9:49 pm by Rhizomorph13.)
(July 10, 2012 at 9:34 pm)FallentoReason Wrote:
Can it be said that the Christian God doesn't exist though? I think it can because once you define a god you then have something to work with. The CHRISTian God obviously depends on the claims about Jesus being true, and we all know how that ends.
Well, I think that is probably workable, but you then need to construct an argument to proove why the Christian God cannot exist, but why bother asserting that something doesn't exist when rejecting the claim is good enough? The Christian God isn't so well defined that you could construct an argument against it. Within the religion there is much debate even about the triune nature of God, as well as whether it wants us to be baptized. Why bother arguing against such a noodly concept?
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 10:25 pm
(July 10, 2012 at 9:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Well, I think that is probably workable, but you then need to construct an argument to proove why the Christian God cannot exist, but why bother asserting that something doesn't exist when rejecting the claim is good enough? The Christian God isn't so well defined that you could construct an argument against it. Within the religion there is much debate even about the triune nature of God, as well as whether it wants us to be baptized. Why bother arguing against such a noodly concept?
I agree with what you say but I think to get taken seriously when one says 'I reject the claim' one has to give at least one reason. This is obvious because without any reason then the rejection of a claim seems arbitrary and arguably irrational. Therefore, it's inevitable that the reason(s) will be of a nature that in someway make a statement about something to do with the given definition of a god. In other words, the tedious job of having to debate your point has to follow for you to justify your point, hence why such a forum as this exists.
In light of all this (and given I haven't made any logical mistakes) the only position I see reasonable to take is that god X with characteristics Y cannot exist because of reasons Z. In a nutshell, if people claim holy book A is a 'fairytale' then show some reasoning to back that up therefore disproving the relative god.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:05 pm
(This post was last modified: July 10, 2012 at 11:14 pm by Jeffonthenet.)
(July 10, 2012 at 12:43 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote: No proof for Batman, no proof for God. That is the similarity being pointed out in this comparison, they are on par plausibility wise.
Of course, you already knew this didn't you? So may I ask why you chose to waste everyones time by creating a thread that could easily be answered in a sentence and a half? Do you think the people who see this thread will bother to look at others you create considering just how tedious a standard you have just set?
There is also no proof that the external world exists and that you are not in the matrix, or that the world didn't pop into being five minutes ago with the appearance of age--that there is a past. There are likewise no proof for basic logical principles because to argue for their truth would be to presuppose them and so be arguing in a circle.
Therefore, I believe I have shown that you are not justified in considering something absurdly fictional simply because you cannot prove that this something exists as I have given you things that we all rationally believe (the existence of the external world, the past, basic logical principles), yet we don't have evidence for their truth.
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Re: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:11 pm
Jeff, the Matrix is just a movie. Not real. There are people who can help you if you often struggle with fiction vs. fact. Speak to your doctor so he or she can refer you to the right people.
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm
(July 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm)cato123 Wrote: There exists a five legged monkey that rides backwards on a unicorn through an enchanted forrest playing Mozart with cricket legs.
If you do not believe in such an entity, provide evidence for its non-existence.
This is not what I am claiming in this thread. It is evident to all that your example is fictional. However, it is not evident to all that God is fictional. There is therefore a significant difference between God and your example. Also, I am not sure you responded to my original post.
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:27 pm
(July 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: It is evident to all that your example is fictional. However, it is not evident to all that God is fictional.
So?
That something appears self-evident to you says nothing about it's status in reality. Claims of self-evidence are only convincing to those who also find said claims self-evident, unsurprisingly.
Which, incidentally, still leaves the burden of proof firmly on your shoulders.
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:41 pm
One thing for which absolutely no evidence exists is Jeffonthenet's intelligence.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 10, 2012 at 11:49 pm
(July 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: (July 10, 2012 at 12:30 pm)cato123 Wrote: There exists a five legged monkey that rides backwards on a unicorn through an enchanted forrest playing Mozart with cricket legs.
If you do not believe in such an entity, provide evidence for its non-existence.
This is not what I am claiming in this thread. It is evident to all that your example is fictional. However, it is not evident to all that God is fictional. There is therefore a significant difference between God and your example. Also, I am not sure you responded to my original post.
If you sincerely missed my point you have proven your reasoning abilities to be as productive as a chastity belt vendor at a hooker convention.
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 11, 2012 at 12:05 am
Quote:This is not what I am claiming in this thread. It is evident to all that your example is fictional.
And your fucking dead jew on a stick coming back to life and flying to heaven is not? You are engaging in a piss-poor example of special pleading, young fellow.
It may be "real" to you but you have OD'd on the Kool-Aid.
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RE: Positive claims and atheists
July 11, 2012 at 12:17 am
(July 10, 2012 at 11:27 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (July 10, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Jeffonthenet Wrote: It is evident to all that your example is fictional. However, it is not evident to all that God is fictional.
So?
That something appears self-evident to you says nothing about it's status in reality. Claims of self-evidence are only convincing to those who also find said claims self-evident, unsurprisingly.
Which, incidentally, still leaves the burden of proof firmly on your shoulders.
You don't think it is self-evident that Santa does not exist? if not, what evidence do you base your belief on that there is no Santa?
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