A Real and Significant Biblical Contradiction?

[Minimalist]

The cities that your phony god alleged to depopulate are along the Nile.

[Lion IRC]

"from the tower of Seveneh even unto the border of Ethiopia..."

[Minimalist]

Egypt does not border Ethiopia....apparently your fucking god sucks at geography, too.

(Egypt's southern border is Sudan...Nubia in antiquity.)

[Lion IRC]

I dont think your understanding of..."from the tower of Seveneh even unto the border of Ethiopia..." is the same as mine.

Wait! I already said that didnt I.

Wouldnt you agree that your previously absolute, rock solid certainty as a basis for saying what did and didnt happen in a poorly defined geographical area is slipping away like sand through.........(oh never mind.)

[Minimalist]

Egypt is hardly a poorly-defined geographical area. Even ignorant 7th century Canaanites couldn't fuck that up.

Aswan (Syene) is a major city in the south. "Migdol" merely means "fortress".

You are simply playing games to try to get your fucking bible off the hook.

"I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations and scatter them through the countries. "

The idiot who wrote this shit is merely less dishonest than you.

[Lion IRC]

Egypt is hardly a poorly-defined geographical area....

It is when empires are fighting over territory.


Which country is this? I never saw them at London 2012 Olympics.
What's up with that? I saw China at the games. I saw Japan. I saw the US.

"I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations and scatter them through the countries. "

Nothing controversial about that statement.
Wanna talk about Nebuchadrezzar for a while?

[Minimalist]

You are falling further and further into intellectual dishonesty.

Truthfully, I expect nothing less from xtians when their fairy tales are under attack.... but you had best adjust to the fact that what you thought was truth is little more than bullshit.

[spockrates]

@ Spokrates I'm ready anytime you are, we can get started today but I will be out of town for the weekend, so if I do not get back to you, you know why.

Sword unsheathed and armor on.

Sorry, GC. Got preoccupied. Still want to take this apparent contradiction on?

[spockrates]

GC:

First of all, I'd suggest not using the NIV translation of Ezekiel, as it appears to be the only translation that translates the Hebrew word as enticed. The other translations use the word deceived, so should we, I think.

The next question to answer, then is this: Is it ever not morally wrong to deceive someone? Let us consider an example of deception:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...on=NIV1984

2 Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from Shittim. “Go, look over the land,” he said, “especially Jericho. ” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute[a] named Rahab and stayed there.

2 The king of Jericho was told, “Look! Some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land.” 3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.”

4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

8 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, “I know that the Lord has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea[b] for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed.[c] 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. 12 Now then, please swear to me by the Lord that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them, and that you will save us from death.”

14 “Our lives for your lives!” the men assured her. “If you don’t tell what we are doing, we will treat you kindly and faithfully when the Lord gives us the land.”

15 So she let them down by a rope through the window, for the house she lived in was part of the city wall. 16 Now she had said to them, “Go to the hills so the pursuers will not find you. Hide yourselves there three days until they return, and then go on your way.”

17 The men said to her, “This oath you made us swear will not be binding on us 18 unless, when we enter the land, you have tied this scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you have brought your father and mother, your brothers and all your family into your house. 19 If anyone goes outside your house into the street, his blood will be on his own head; we will not be responsible. As for anyone who is in the house with you, his blood will be on our head if a hand is laid on him. 20 But if you tell what we are doing, we will be released from the oath you made us swear. ”

21 “Agreed,” she replied. “Let it be as you say.” So she sent them away and they departed. And she tied the scarlet cord in the window.

(Joshuah 2)

---

Here we have the prostitute lying to the soldiers of the walled city to protect the Hebrew spies from being arrested and executed. In these circumstances, was it morally wrong for her to deceive? If not, why not?

[ThomM]

GC:

First of all, I'd suggest not using the NIV translation of Ezekiel, as it appears to be the only translation that translates the Hebrew word as enticed. The other translations use the word deceived, so should we, I think.

The next question to answer, then is this: Is it ever not morally wrong to deceive someone? Let us consider an example of deception:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...on=NIV1984

2 Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from Shittim. “Go, look over the land,” he said, “especially Jericho. ” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute[a] named Rahab and stayed there.

2 The king of Jericho was told, “Look! Some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land.” 3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.”

4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) 7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

8 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, “I know that the Lord has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the Lord dried up the water of the Red Sea[b] for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed.[c] 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone’s courage failed because of you, for the Lord your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. 12 Now then, please swear to me by the Lord that you will show kindness to my family, because I have shown kindness to you. Give me a sure sign 13 that you will spare the lives of my father and mother, my brothers and sisters, and all who belong to them, and that you will save us from death.”

14 “Our lives for your lives!” the men assured her. “If you don’t tell what we are doing, we will treat you kindly and faithfully when the Lord gives us the land.”

15 So she let them down by a rope through the window, for the house she lived in was part of the city wall. 16 Now she had said to them, “Go to the hills so the pursuers will not find you. Hide yourselves there three days until they return, and then go on your way.”

17 The men said to her, “This oath you made us swear will not be binding on us 18 unless, when we enter the land, you have tied this scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you have brought your father and mother, your brothers and all your family into your house. 19 If anyone goes outside your house into the street, his blood will be on his own head; we will not be responsible. As for anyone who is in the house with you, his blood will be on our head if a hand is laid on him. 20 But if you tell what we are doing, we will be released from the oath you made us swear. ”

21 “Agreed,” she replied. “Let it be as you say.” So she sent them away and they departed. And she tied the scarlet cord in the window.

(Joshuah 2)

---

Here we have the prostitute lying to the soldiers of the walled city to protect the Hebrew spies from being arrested and executed. In these circumstances, was it morally wrong for her to deceive? If not, why not?

Here we have a person who is BEARING False witness - which is a direct violation of the Ten Commandments - she LIED.

It is the religion itself that establishes that it is morally wrong for her to deceive - because the END cannot justify the means.

OR are you attempting to show that there are CONTRADICTIONS with the TEN COMMANDMENTS where sometimes they do NOT apply?

Either way - you lose