Writings during the lifetime of Jesus?

[The Grand Nudger]

So now you're telling me what I'm capable of?

Nice gratuitous assertion there.

I assumed you were a human being. You know, eyes, ears, nose, etc. That you are incapable of observing the vast majority of what goes on even 2 inches from your face is a simple fact of biology.

[Zen Badger]

Or to put it another way.....

Look for evidence of an elephant in the house, none found, conclusion = no elephant.

Look for evidence of jesus, none found, conclusion = no jesus.

Look for evidence of unicorns, none found, conclusion = no unicorns.

(And yes, unicorns DO get a mention in the bible as real creatures, isaiah 34)

[KichigaiNeko]

I found a dragon in my cupboard..... proof?



Isn't he cute? Can we keep him Zen?

[popeyespappy]

Seneca the Younger: Roman philosopher and statesman who lived from 3 BCE to 65 CE. He traveled throughout the Roman Empire and was the private tutor of Nero. His brother Gallio heard charges brought by Jews against the apostle Paul, but he dismissed the charges. Many of the works of Seneca survive, including over 100 letters on morality.

This is another one of those things that bears looking into. Odds are any relationship between Seneca and Paul exists only in the minds of some Christians.

The tradition that Gallio sent some of St. Paul's writings to his brother Seneca is utterly absurd; and indeed at this time (A.D. 54), St. Paul had written nothing except the two Epistles to the Thessalonians.

Seekers After God By Rev. F. W. Farrar, D.D., F.R.S., Canon of Westminster.

[Napoléon]

No, you can't observe much more than a fraction of any part of your house or what is going on inside of it. Nevertheless, there isn't any elephant hiding in the vast majority of your house that you are unable to observe Cat.
(nice appeal to ignorance though-we get that a lot around here)

So now you're telling me what I'm capable of?

Nice gratuitous assertion there.

Unless you live in a cardboard box I highly doubt you could view every room in your house simultaneously.

[jonb]

A cat with glasses



seeing everything at once.

[Gambit]

You could view every room in your house simultaneously if you were watching them on split-screen fed from a number of cameras. Sorry, but just had to throw that in there. Carry on.

[The Grand Nudger]

Even so, what you were observing (with you're awesome home security system) would be a small fraction of what is there to observe in the first place. Nevertheless, I assume that both you and Cat (and I) would confidently conclude that there was no elephant. Cat seems to be implying that his favorite fairy should be given special consideration, a consideration not given to the hypothetical elephant. Well, over-ruled, it isn't worthy of such consideration.

(unless, of course, Cat is willing to concede to undetectable elephants and any other manner of ridiculous shit I can come up with to abuse this poorly thought out response - please, please pick this option Cat.....I haven't had good opportunity to flex the ole i-mag-ination recently)

[Drich]

You do know that less than an estimated 3% of the population durning the time of Christ could read or write. Of that three percent in christ's soceity 98% of the literates belonged to the priestly tribes. (meaning they were scribes and preists who were not allowed to write or rather record 'new material' only what was then known as scripture. Not that any of them would want to.) The other 2% belong to Rome, and as such would have had very little intrest in anything not directly effecting roman affairs.
http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~barilm/illitera.html

The first century was not a time in which things were written down for the sake of doing so. writting materials were extremely expensive and perserving those writtings was also very costly, and it was something to be considered. for even if a wealthy literate man did decide to write everything down, that writting would have need to be cared for in a scriptorium. for what they wrote with and on (papirious or parchemnt) would not have lasted very long in someone home exposed to sunlight and the open air.

It wasn't till the church had been established could it afford to record and care for what was recorded. Meaning nothing would have been perserved if it was written durning the life of Christ, because only the Jews had access to everything that was needed to record and perserve a text outside of scriptoriums of rome.

The simple fact is reading and writting means very little to a soceity who does not have the materials for people to read or write on.

There were most certainly people 'qualified' enough to have written what they wished about Jesus and be able to preserve it.

Justus of Tiberias: Jewish historian who lived in Galilee during the 1st century and wrote two preserved works, a history of the Jewish War of 66-70 and a chronicle of the Jewish people from Moses to the death of Agrippa II in 100 CE, covering the period in which Jesus supposedly lived. (Justus may have lived slightly after the supposed death of Jesus)

Philo of Alexandria: Jewish historian, philosopher, theologian, and community leader who lived from 20 BCE to 50 CE in Alexandria Egypt, but reported on events throughout the Mediterranean world. He specifically wrote about conflicts between Pontius Pilate and Jews during Pilate's governorship of Judea.

Pliny the Elder: Roman historian and philosopher who lived from 23-79 CE. He traveled throughout the Roman Empire, though mostly in the northern regions. Most of his works, over 200 manuscripts, are preserved.

Seneca the Younger: Roman philosopher and statesman who lived from 3 BCE to 65 CE. He traveled throughout the Roman Empire and was the private tutor of Nero. His brother Gallio heard charges brought by Jews against the apostle Paul, but he dismissed the charges. Many of the works of Seneca survive, including over 100 letters on morality.

Valerius Maximus: Roman writer who lived from 20 BCE to 50 CE, who traveled to various places in the Roman Empire, including eastern portions of the empire. He wrote a popular series of books on memorable sayings and deeds collected from throughout the empire in 30 CE.

Velleius Paterculus: Roman military officer and historian who lived from 20 BCE to 31 CE. He served in the military in the eastern portions of the empire and wrote a surviving work, Compendium of Roman History, which covers history up through 14 CE. Other materials survive as well. His Compendium of Roman History actually spends a lot of time discussing non-Romans as well.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articl...tory.htm#8

In conclusion, if something did happen concerning someone by the name of Jesus these guys were more than capable of telling us.

So out of 6 known people in the world at that time who were known to record events outside of state affairs and Jewish scripture. you're saying christ in His three and half year ministry would have to have run accross one of these men who had to be willing to give up everything and follow Him just to record what was going on? Word traveled much slower then, by the time word reached Rome decades had past. Let alone where ever these 6 men were in the empire.

Lets say this didn't actually happen with Luke (that when he heard of Christ, theolopus sent Luke right away and He had already died resurected and assended) what makes you think Christ would have accepted a non Jew to do such a thing? For that matter what makes you think that no gentile writings attest to the existance of Christ? In 70 AD Rome sack and burned much of Israel and little was left, but even so there are alot of non biblical accounts of Christ. so much so only a fool would say Christ did not exist:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

[cratehorus]

out of 6 known people in the world at that time who were known to record events

there were far more than 6