Why Muslims are under rated.

[Minimalist]

I'm sorry but you have got to stop believing every piece of bullshit someone tells you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_Watie

Watie was born in Oothcaloga, Cherokee Nation (now Calhoun, Georgia) on December 12, 1806, the son of Uwatie (Cherokee for "the ancient one"), a full-blood Cherokee, and Susanna Reese, daughter of a white father and Cherokee mother. He was named Degataga. His brothers were Gallagina, nicknamed "Buck" (who later took the name Elias Boudinot); and Thomas Watie. They were close to their paternal uncle Major Ridge, and his son John Ridge, both later leaders in the tribe. By 1827, their father David Uwatie had become a wealthy planter, who held African-American slaves as laborers.

After Uwatie converted to Christianity with the Moravians, he took the name of David Uwatie; he and Susanna renamed Degataga as Isaac.

[cratehorus]

There is no way they could have used the word "ALLAH" unless they had direct contact with Islam since the Holy name of God has been lifted from everyone else.

??? I never thought of that?

[Anomalocaris]

...

Now, granted there were huge grain carriers operating between Carthage and Rome in the Imperial period but the Romans would have had no cause to expose those ships to the Atlantic. They were far too necessary to maintaining the food supply in the capital. While military vessels may have had the capability to remain at sea for longer periods of time it is also true that when Pompey the Great campaigned against the Cilician pirates he did it by conquering the land they were based in - not by sinking every individual pirate ship.

As for getting back...we know NOW where the westerlies are. They would have had no such information.

Finally, there is nothing in the record which indicates that anyone ever claimed to have made such a trip.

---

Obviously, if Romans recorded such a claim, subsequent history would be very different.

However, based on pure technical ability, I think it is not implausiible.

1. It won't be a warship as roman era warships were fair weather craft not suited to carry large amount of provision.

2. I don't see roman merchant vessels as having any flaw that would make them fundamentally more unsuited to ocean travels than Columbus's vessels. I think by 2-3rd centuries roman grave stone depictions show the Romans even had multi-masted ships with gaff or Lateen rigged sails on some masts and square rigged sails on others, implying a respectable ability to beat to the windward and good capacity to sail large with wind, in other wards, approximately level with 15 century atlantic sailing technology, in some respects, showing sail innovation not popularized in Atlantic sailing till after the 1770s.

3. It's a stretch, but it's not inconceivable for the Romans to have known, or in necessity have made the leap about the westerlies in southern latitudes because: 1. There might have been now lost records from earlier egyptian or phoenecian, who had completed circumnavigations of africa, telling them so. 2. Romans could have made the leap themselves by observing wind in the 40s in the northern hemisphere primary blew from the west, thus usually pinning any sailing ships in their harbors on the aquatanian coast, and made the leap and speculated that a symmetrical westerlies band in the southern hemisphere as well.

[cratehorus]

Obviously, if Romans recorded such a claim, subsequent history would be very different.

However, based on pure technical ability, I think it is not implausiible.

I think it's more likely the Romans tried and failed. Roman history is very well recorded, and they had no evidence of any form of food preservation, so they likely would have died before making it there.

The biggest mystery right now is who founded the Olmecs? Was it the Mande? The Chinese? The Norse?.... They would be placed at 1500 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec_alter...eculations

[jonb]

There is no way they could have used the word "ALLAH" unless they had direct contact with Islam.

http://www.ala.org/
http://www.alla.asn.au/
http://alla.law.unimelb.edu.au/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIFmhye6fqw
http://www.booking.com/hotel/it/alla-sal...alute.com/

Gets about about a bit this ancient moon god.

[Minimalist]

There is no way they could have used the word "ALLAH"

Are you so well versed in the Cherokee language, then? For all you know, "ala", "alla", "allah" is the Cherokee word for dogshit.

[jonb]

I found in an online cherokee dictionary
a-la-su-lo means shoe

http://www.ctc.volant.org/cherokee/Mirro...-cher.html

[Minimalist]

I'm sure the Cherokee had a problem with dogshit on their shoes like everyone else!

[Anomalocaris]

Obviously, if Romans recorded such a claim, subsequent history would be very different.

However, based on pure technical ability, I think it is not implausiible.

I think it's more likely the Romans tried and failed. Roman history is very well recorded, and they had no evidence of any form of food preservation, so they likely would have died before making it there.

The biggest mystery right now is who founded the Olmecs? Was it the Mande? The Chinese? The Norse?.... They would be placed at 1500 BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec_alter...eculations

1500 BC is long before any hint of Norse or anything easily classifiable as Chinese. So I have to go with olmecs founded the olmecs.

As to roman records, their survving records might seem voluminous for some periods like 1st century AD, but even then they were vastly short of comprehensive. In 2nd century AD, when the empire was arguably at its zenith, surviving records seems to have falling pitifully spotty.

As to food preservation, some form of preservation undoubtedly happened. Salting, drying, etc. it's by no means clear the Romans could not have fed themselves on reasonably long sea trips should they have planned for it in the first place.

[Tobie]

1500BC is even before the peak of the Phoenician civilisation, and they were the first real maritime power.