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If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
#11
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
I’d know supernatural events occur if a young scantily clad Barbara Eden suddenly appeared from nowhere in front of me, crossed her arms and started blinking convertibles, large piles of gold, more scantily clad young women, jets, mega yachts, private islands, cold fusion reactors, intergalactic starships and time machines into existence.

ETA: Oh, and a fountain of youth....
Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.
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#12
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm)Ryantology Wrote: Two reasons. One is that most people do not define the term as you do and classify as natural anything not made by people. The second is that the term 'unnatural' carries negative connotations, often without a good reason.
I fail to see how that ultimately matters. Does "non-natural" make you happier then?


Quote:"Physical" is not a totally clear term, either, but I do think it is harder to confuse, and there is no negative/positive paradigm between "physical" and "non-physical".
I'd argue that non-physical makes even less sense than "supernatural". Everything is physical, material, even imaginary concepts are all down to brain chemistry otherwise it does not, cannot, exist. Entities should be by definition, physical. A non-physical entity is a contradiction.

*reads wiki*

Quote:An entity is something that exists by itself, although it need not be of material existence.
Are you shitting me? What kind of moronic statement is that?

Actually you know what? Fuck humans and their silly backward babble gobbledygook they dare to call a "language".
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#13
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: I’d know supernatural events occur if a young scantily clad Barbara Eden suddenly appeared from nowhere in front of me, crossed her arms and started blinking convertibles, large piles of gold, more scantily clad young women, jets, mega yachts, private islands, cold fusion reactors, intergalactic starships and time machines into existence.

ETA: Oh, and a fountain of youth....

I would fuck her to prove she is natural.
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#14
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Suppose that what appears to be a supernatural event happens right in front of you. Say a glowing man with wings floats down to earth in front of hundreds of people, makes an accurate prediction of a future improbable event, maybe raises a few verifiably dead people for good measure, and then disappears in a great ball of light.

Even though such things appear to defy known science, and seems to be an instance of stereotypical miracles of religions happening before our eyes, could we conclusively say that it was a real supernatural event? Wouldn't the most probable explanation be that it was an alien trickster from an incredibly advanced alien civilization, perhaps one that discovered a way to see into the future, teleport, and "raise" the dead?

Consider: alien explanation versus supernatural explanation. Even though both are seemingly incredibly unlikely, I would think that the alien explanation is far better explanation than the supernatural explanation in any instance of an apparent miracle since given our scientific knowledge, there seems to be a good a chance of life developing on other planets in our universe.

What's that saying?... something like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
My bold to your post, because its this part of events that I don't think I could have any explanation(for me anyway). Even though I may not be able to explain it, I believe I would would be more inclined to say that there is now a lot more I do not understand. Just because I cannot explain it certainly does not make it supernatural.
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#15
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
Well,I start thinking along those lines if my dog turned into a cat in front of me or I suddenly found I was an athletically fit 20 year old,with all that implies for a male. Thinking


A man fell asleep by a river and dreamed he was a butterfly. He awoke and he was man. Was he a man dreaming he was a butterfly,or a butterfly dreaming he was a man?
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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#16
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I think this is probably a reasonable argument. It may also explain why if aliens visited mankind in the past why they don't do so now. Perhaps they realize that far too many of us are skeptics and have a good understanding of matters scientific.

Regardless, I'm not too worried about having to decide between supernatural and highly advanced technology. If aliens show up on our planet at this point, I really don't think it will be to do parlor tricks in order to impress us into building them stone monuments and mesa landing strips. It'll be to wipe us off the face of the earth. Undecided
[Image: Evolution.png]

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#17
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 6:48 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: I fail to see how that ultimately matters. Does "non-natural" make you happier then?

What would make me happy is if the terms could be used without the biases involved, but since that's never going to happen, and classifying everything as 'natural' would confuse people, I submit that this is as big a deal as I'm willing to let it get. : )


Quote:I'd argue that non-physical makes even less sense than "supernatural". Everything is physical, material, even imaginary concepts are all down to brain chemistry otherwise it does not, cannot, exist. Entities should be by definition, physical. A non-physical entity is a contradiction.

That is surely true, but there is not a significant mistrust against ideas and concepts as compared to actual objects made of matter and energy, is what I was saying.
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#18
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Waratah Wrote: ...
My bold to your post, because its this part of events that I don't think I could have any explanation(for me anyway). Even though I may not be able to explain it, I believe I would would be more inclined to say that there is now a lot more I do not understand. Just because I cannot explain it certainly does not make it supernatural.

Um, maybe matter replication + dna + time travel to download their memories from their old brain and put it on the new recreated one? Or maybe the aliens have a copies of all our brains. I'm just making stuff up. But you see my point, it seems like you can come with any sort of alternative explanation for a supernatural event.
My ignore list




"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
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#19
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Suppose that what appears to be a supernatural event happens right in front of you. Say a glowing man with wings floats down to earth in front of hundreds of people, makes an accurate prediction of a future improbable event, maybe raises a few verifiably dead people for good measure, and then disappears in a great ball of light.

Even though such things appear to defy known science, and seems to be an instance of stereotypical miracles of religions happening before our eyes, could we conclusively say that it was a real supernatural event? Wouldn't the most probable explanation be that it was an alien trickster from an incredibly advanced alien civilization, perhaps one that discovered a way to see into the future, teleport, and "raise" the dead?

Consider: alien explanation versus supernatural explanation. Even though both are seemingly incredibly unlikely, I would think that the alien explanation is far better explanation than the supernatural explanation in any instance of an apparent miracle since given our scientific knowledge, there seems to be a good a chance of life developing on other planets in our universe.

What's that saying?... something like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I'd have to argue semantics here. If an event is beyond the explanation of known science, then it can be called either supernatural or paranormal. The term you use to describe it speaks more to your own belief system and worldview than it does to the event itself.

Using "paranormal" implies belief that while the event might be beyond explanation currently, with greater understanding of science or more discovery of laws of nature would lead us to understanding it. Using "supernatural" implies that it'd be beyond that understanding in perpetuity.

If the event is in fact supernatural, then by definition there would be no way to classify it as such. If the source is beyond nature and human understanding, then a certain classification of the event as supernatural would indicate that there is a degree of understanding involved.

(August 28, 2012 at 3:22 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Supernatural is just science we don't understand yet. I'm sure volcanoes, earthquakes, lightning and fireflies were supernatural to cavemen a few thousand years ago. Heck, the first guy who picked up a burning stick and used it as a torch was probably considered some incredibly powerful magician with incredibly supernatural powers.

Nope. That's "paranormal".
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#20
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
(August 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: I’d know supernatural events occur if a young scantily clad Barbara Eden suddenly appeared from nowhere in front of me, crossed her arms and started blinking convertibles, large piles of gold, more scantily clad young women, jets, mega yachts, private islands, cold fusion reactors, intergalactic starships and time machines into existence.

ETA: Oh, and a fountain of youth....

Silly me. I would have no qualms with a middle-aged scantily clad Barbara Eden.
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