Posts: 3226
Threads: 244
Joined: April 17, 2012
Reputation:
54
If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm
(This post was last modified: August 28, 2012 at 1:33 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
Suppose that what appears to be a supernatural event happens right in front of you. Say a glowing man with wings floats down to earth in front of hundreds of people, makes an accurate prediction of a future improbable event, maybe raises a few verifiably dead people for good measure, and then disappears in a great ball of light.
Even though such things appear to defy known science, and seems to be an instance of stereotypical miracles of religions happening before our eyes, could we conclusively say that it was a real supernatural event? Wouldn't the most probable explanation be that it was an alien trickster from an incredibly advanced alien civilization, perhaps one that discovered a way to see into the future, teleport, and "raise" the dead?
Consider: alien explanation versus supernatural explanation. Even though both are seemingly incredibly unlikely, I would think that the alien explanation is far better explanation than the supernatural explanation in any instance of an apparent miracle since given our scientific knowledge, there seems to be a good a chance of life developing on other planets in our universe.
What's that saying?... something like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
My ignore list
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
Posts: 2966
Threads: 124
Joined: May 12, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 1:49 pm
I'd proclaim myself as green ball of light man's ony prophet and charge everyone a 10% tithe.
Posts: 30974
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 2:23 pm
(August 28, 2012 at 1:31 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: What's that saying?... something like "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Or, "any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced".
Posts: 67288
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Indistinguishable in practice, but not in principle. The difference between the two would be that there is at least a mechanism by which the alien explanation works..as opposed to throwing our hands in the air and claiming "magic".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 2844
Threads: 169
Joined: August 24, 2012
Reputation:
46
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 3:22 pm
Supernatural is just science we don't understand yet. I'm sure volcanoes, earthquakes, lightning and fireflies were supernatural to cavemen a few thousand years ago. Heck, the first guy who picked up a burning stick and used it as a torch was probably considered some incredibly powerful magician with incredibly supernatural powers.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 4:32 pm
(This post was last modified: August 28, 2012 at 4:33 pm by Welsh cake.)
The word "supernatural" makes no sense. Like saying there's a hypernatural beyond supernatural. The prefix is meaningless as the scope and context of nature has not been properly defined.
Its either "natural", "unnatural" (man-made), or quite simply does not exist.
Posts: 5598
Threads: 112
Joined: July 16, 2012
Reputation:
74
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: August 28, 2012 at 4:38 pm by Ryantology.)
I don't even like 'man-made' and 'unnatural' being synonymous. A car is no more unnatural than a beehive, as beehives don't just happen by themselves.
So, of course, 'supernatural' is a totally nonsense word which should be synonymous with 'imaginary' or 'delusional'.
This does, of course, mean that 'natural' has no real meaning of its own, as it is really just a synonym for 'physical'.
Posts: 19789
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 4:49 pm
(August 28, 2012 at 3:22 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Supernatural is just science we don't understand yet. I'm sure volcanoes, earthquakes, lightning and fireflies were supernatural to cavemen a few thousand years ago. Heck, the first guy who picked up a burning stick and used it as a torch was probably considered some incredibly powerful magician with incredibly supernatural powers.
Supernature is one of those words which generally give much more use information aabout the person using it than about the phenomenon he is using it on. All of it unflattering.
Posts: 2254
Threads: 85
Joined: January 24, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 4:58 pm
(This post was last modified: August 28, 2012 at 5:00 pm by Welsh cake.)
(August 28, 2012 at 4:35 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I don't even like 'man-made' and 'unnatural' being synonymous. A car is no more unnatural than a beehive, as beehives don't just happen by themselves. An automobile manufactured by humans, a dam constructed by beavers, a mound built up by termites are all just that, easily identifiable, and therefore unnatural. It is the end product of living organisms changing and manipulating their environment. None of them occur naturally.
Why does the association of the two terms bother you?
Quote:This does, of course, mean that 'natural' has no real meaning of its own, as it is really just a synonym for 'physical'.
Depends in what context you mean and apply "natural" in. Of course it has a meaning that we've ascribed to it, but the limits and square-bounds of these labels, including 'physical' are often vague and not well established. Hence why silly misnomers like "supernatural" exist to start with.
Posts: 5598
Threads: 112
Joined: July 16, 2012
Reputation:
74
RE: If a supernatural event occurred, how would you tell?
August 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm
(August 28, 2012 at 4:58 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: An automobile manufactured by humans, a dam constructed by beavers, a mound built up by termites are all just that, easily identifiable, and therefore unnatural. It is the end product of living organisms changing and manipulating their environment. None of them occur naturally.
Why does the association of the two terms bother you?
Two reasons. One is that most people do not define the term as you do and classify as natural anything not made by people. The second is that the term 'unnatural' carries negative connotations, often without a good reason.
Quote:Depends in what context you mean and apply "natural" in. Of course it has a meaning that we've ascribed to it, but the limits and square-bounds of these labels, including 'physical' are often vague and not well established. Hence why silly misnomers like "supernatural" exist to start with.
"Physical" is not a totally clear term, either, but I do think it is harder to confuse, and there is no negative/positive paradigm between "physical" and "non-physical".
|