Convert me!

[The Grand Nudger]

@OP

Convert yourself. I'm too busy with important things, like watching grass grow.

[Erinome]

Penhorse, you should ask yourself why you don't believe in one of the many other gods that men have invented. Ask yourself why you're already an atheist in regards to them, but cling to the god in which you were, no doubt, brought up believing/worshiping. If you were born somewhere else, chances are you would believe in a different god, and then you'd be an atheist in regards to jesus.

Forgive me if my assumptions are wrong, but I hope you get my point.

[Cyberman]

I think a more pressing question at this point would be: after seven pages of people giving you reasons, some of them perhaps more solid than others, for you to "throw away the crutch" - particularly since you admitted to cracks in your faith anyway - are we any closer to a resolution yet? Can we at least get some idea of the direction this little experiment is going?

[Cinjin]

@Cinjin
That's interesting, you say life is better for you post deconversion (or whatever the correct term is). If it's not a rude question, were you raised as a Christian? Or were you atheist - Christian - atheist. I ask because my experience was atheist - Christian and I was miserable as an atheist.

In truth, I don't give a shit what you do, and I think the only people who do are either religious twats or pretentious busy bodies. Continue worshiping a dead hebrew as long as you want.

However, to answer your question, I was raised a christian. The hellfire, the guilt, the spirit-quenching, will-breaking, brain-washing, soul crushing slavery of it all ... oh yes, it was all mine. The "peace that passeth all understanding" is an utter lie. There is no peace in christianity, if there was, NO ONE would EVER give it up. My parents are still brutally devout - and I haven't seen peace in their eyes in 30 years. They are broken, depressed slaves of jesus who serve, not a god per say, but a set of rules - most of which are either interpreted or directly created by a pastor who heads up a cult they call a "community of christ." Fundamental baptist fucktards who wouldn't know reality if it bit their genitals off.

Ask yourself this: If christianity is so real and the peace god offers so wonderful, why do even long time clergy (True Christians) decide they've had enough of this so called "inner peace?"

Because like you, they know somewhere in the back of their minds that it is a giant steaming pile of bull shit ... no different from any other religion.

[Penhorse340]

I think a more pressing question at this point would be: after seven pages of people giving you reasons, some of them perhaps more solid than others, for you to "throw away the crutch" - particularly since you admitted to cracks in your faith anyway - are we any closer to a resolution yet? Can we at least get some idea of the direction this little experiment is going?

By all means.

I should preface this by saying how much I've enjoyed the discussion. You guys are much more fun to talk to than Christians. I hope other people have had fun also!

I've not really heard anything which changes my position very much. The benefits of abandoning faith, for me, seem slim. Lots of people have told me what I perceive as benefit isn't, which I can't really agree with since without in depth knowledge of the individual it's impossible to state the effects of a particular belief.

I have stated to think I need to reclassify myself though, as it is increasingly clear that calling oneself a Christian is becoming increasingly a sociopolitical thing rather than a theological one.

I've learned that for many people, religion has done them personally great damage, and that explains a good deal of why people actively object to religion, rather than simply dismissing it.

I've learned that atheists, by and large, debate more rationally and less aggressively than Christians. By and large .

I'd say on balance at this point I'm about the same in terms of personal theology, and somewhat more hostile towards organised religion.

[jonb]

I'd say on balance at this point I'm about the same in terms of personal theology, and somewhat more hostile towards organised religion.

I like your honesty, and I really I'm not interested in converting you, that using of your mind you have to do for your self.
But where you are I wonder if you know about a few things I heard about long ago, that you will have to look up for your self as I no longer have the links so you will have to check them.
The oldest existing testament ended at the moving of the stone from the grave. Thomas seemed to be saying it was not the resurrection that was important but the teachings, and Thomas's gospel is translated on the net. For somebody who rejects the church, and therefore Paul that might be a way forward for you.

[Penhorse340]

I'd say on balance at this point I'm about the same in terms of personal theology, and somewhat more hostile towards organised religion.

I like your honesty, and I really I'm not interested in converting you, that using of your mind you have to do for your self.
But where you are I wonder if you know about a few things I heard about long ago, that you will have to look up for your self as I no longer have the links so you will have to check them.
The oldest existing testament ended at the moving of the stone from the grave. Thomas seemed to be saying it was not the resurrection that was important but the teachings, and Thomas's gospel is translated on the net. For somebody who rejects the church, and therefore Paul that might be a way forward for you.

Thankyou. I guess convert me was a misleading thread title but a more accurate one would be unwieldy.

What you say sounds interesting. The closest I've come to a church I like is the "red letter Christian" group who essentially focus on what Jesus said (red letters) and don't worry too much about the rest. Largely evolved from a group of Christians who were pissed off with the churches obsession with homosexuality and abortion, neither of which he mentioned, and it's judgemental and invasive streak, which he actively condemned. I think Jesus would be royally fucked off with the church today.

If you find a link or a search string, I'd be interested. Edit, found it. Ta.

---

Just read that the early church considered thomas to be a disciple not of Jesus, but of Mani, called Thomas Baddas.

Got to check that out, what's not to like about a guy who has Bad Ass in his name!?

[Brian37]

That's interesting, you say life is better for you post deconversion (or whatever the correct term is). If it's not a rude question, were you raised as a Christian? Or were you atheist - Christian - atheist. I ask because my experience was atheist - Christian and I was miserable as an atheist.

You were miserable as an atheist, so? 7 billion people on this planet, some have it better than others, all of us have ups and downs and emotions are not static. A god is not required to explain why humans are happy or sad and an atheist being sad does not make a god real.

I am an atheist and my sister is a Christian. We both are emotional and both of us are dirt poor. Why? Not because of our labels, but because human evolution is a range and outcomes of individual lives may vary.

James Randi and Richard Dawkins are both rich atheists. Ann Romney suffers from MS, so seems her sky daddy seems to favor atheists over a Christian?

You were miserable as an atheist for the same reason I was miserable as a Christian. Because humans have emotions and life can affect all of us both positively and negatively. No need for Allah or Yahweh or Vishnu to explain mundane reality.

You went through some shit in your life, yea, so do most of the 7 billion of us.

[Penhorse340]

That's interesting, you say life is better for you post deconversion (or whatever the correct term is). If it's not a rude question, were you raised as a Christian? Or were you atheist - Christian - atheist. I ask because my experience was atheist - Christian and I was miserable as an atheist.

You were miserable as an atheist, so? 7 billion people on this planet, some have it better than others, all of us have ups and downs and emotions are not static. A god is not required to explain why humans are happy or sad and an atheist being sad does not make a god real.

I am an atheist and my sister is a Christian. We both are emotional and both of us are dirt poor. Why? Not because of our labels, but because human evolution is a range and outcomes of individual lives may vary.

James Randi and Richard Dawkins are both rich atheists. Ann Romney suffers from MS, so seems her sky daddy seems to favor atheists over a Christian?

You were miserable as an atheist for the same reason I was miserable as a Christian. Because humans have emotions and life can affect all of us both positively and negatively. No need for Allah or Yahweh or Vishnu to explain mundane reality.

You went through some shit in your life, yea, so do most of the 7 billion of us.

You appear to misunderstand me. I'm absolutely not saying that christians are happier or richer or healthier than atheists. I'm saying that, personally, I made a shit job of being a human until I became a Christian at which point I started making a much better job of it. That's in no way proof god is real or even that Christianity is healthy, as has been undeniably shown, some people have the same improvement when they cross the other way!

I'm not saying Christianity IS helpful. One can't say that without evidence, numbers, statistics. I'm saying it CAN be helpful. And indeed it CAN be toxic. Those are facts.

[Napoléon]

I'm saying it CAN be helpful. And indeed it CAN be toxic. Those are facts.

But it's kind of a pointless thing to say then isn't it.