Let's Start Over, I'm Blackrook and I'm Here to Get Some Answers to Important Questions

[Blackrook]

Anyway, let's start over.

My name is Blackrook and I'm a Catholic in crisis and I'm here to get some answers to some questions I have.

Catholicism has been a great comfort to me when I had feelings that I didn't want to live, and felt like killing myself.

I felt God's presence, literally reaching out to me and telling me I was loved.

Even now, in my current state of pessimism, I can look forward to something better after my bitter struggle in this world is complete.

What can atheism offer to replace that?

[Minimalist]

Just reality. This life is all you've got. Stop wasting it on your knees to the non-existent and live.

[frankiej]

Lots and lots of shameless sex and a fuck load of weed.

That will make anyone happy.

In all seriousness, I don't know. I have been an atheist all my life, so I don't know what it is like to look forward to an afterlife...

[Phish]

so let me make it clear god created you so that you will kill your self damn that god dude sounds like a pretty nice guy

[Faith No More]

First off, I'd like to say thank you for trying to start over, and hopefully this time the conversation will be more civil on both sides.

As far as atheism offering anything to replace that, the only thing atheism offers is the truth. The rest is up to you to discover. Meaning comes not from a deity but from within. This can require long periods of soul-searching, and it is definitely not an easy path to comfort. I was never a theist, but I know that de-conversion is something that a lot of atheists struggled with since their source of meaning has been removed. Once you do find meaning, however, living with the truth instead of a comforting lie is liberating to the intellect.

So, to sum up, atheism gives you the ability to take control of your own life and stop wishing for a deity to fix things for you. It allows you to take the reins of your destiny.

[festive1]

There is no cosmic father that loves you, me, the Pope, anybody.
That's tough, but it's true.
How do you fill that?
I can only say how I fill that, which is through being the best human I can be. I meditate. I try and take care of myself through eating well and exercising (and when I don't do it perfectly, I try not to beat myself up about it). I try not to say mean and hurtful things simply to be mean and hurtful. I strive to treat everyone with dignity and respect, basically the way I want to be treated. I embrace my imperfections (not always fully, but there's a learning curve). Basically, I've filled that "need" with self-love and respect, or at least I try to.
Atheism doesn't try to fill any voids. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god. That's it. There are some who want to make it more cohesive, but there's a lot of resistance to that. It's been said getting atheists to agree to anything is like herding cats, in my experience that is true.
Based on some of the other posts you've made, it comes off like you are not interested in exploring atheism. It seems like you have a lot of views that are directly related to your faith. Until you are ready to question why you, personally, hold those beliefs (holding beliefs simply because some church or priest tells you that's what's "right" or "moral" doesn't stand up in this crowd) than I think you're going to have a tough time coming across as earnestly seeking answers.

[CapnAwesome]

I don't care if we are being rude to you. Big deal, The Atheist Church isn't spending millions of dollars on Atheist conversion programs. You know why? Because those things don't exist. Meanwhile the Catholic church is dying as they spend millions and perhaps billions of dollars.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pas...erica.html

I'll highlight my favorite part for you.

"A breakdown of overall attendance percentages by church type shows decreases across the board in evangelical, mainline and Catholic churches.

The most significant drop in attendance came at the expense of the Catholic Church, which experienced an 11% decrease in its attendance percentage from 2000 to 2004. Next, and not far behind were mainline churches, which saw a 10% percentage decline. Evangelicals experienced the smallest drop at 1%. "

Meanwhile Atheism has almost doubled in the last 20 years.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/20...ARIS_N.htm

That's without us even caring. So go back to your church and take whatever comfort you want in it. We don't care.

[Blackrook]

First off, I'd like to say thank you for trying to start over, and hopefully this time the convesation will more civil on both sides.

As far as atheism offering anything to replace that, the only thing atheism offers is the truth. The rest is up to you to discover. Meaning comes not from a deity but from within. This can require long periods of soul-searching, and it is definitely not an easy path to comfort. I was never a theist, but I know that de-conversion is something that a lot of atheists struggled with since their source of meaning has been removed. Once you do find meaning, however, living with the truth instead of a comforting lie is liberating to the intellect.

So, to sum up, atheism gives you the ability to take control of your own life and stop wishing for a deity to fix things for you. It allows you to take the reins of your destiny.

Right, well I've stopped believing that God is going to swoop in and fix my life and make things better. He has already proven he's not going to do that.

All the bad things that have happened to me I realize are caused by a combination of factors: I am bipolar, I am ADD, and an anti-social personality because my mother was abusive to me and I grew up not trusting people.

So I have had very little success in my career, and at the age of 47 I am once again starting out with nothing in my bank account, no book of business, but still with all the responsibilities of a wife and a son to support, plus lots of bills.

And God has done nothing to help me with any of this, despite my prayers.

Or maybe he has, I don't know. Maybe I should be counting my blessings: a happy marriage and three wonderful children. And if I die now, I've accomplished that. I had a very unhappy childhood, but I was able to make sure my children DID have a happy childhood.

But I've been a bad example to them on Catholicism. My eldest has declared she is not a Catholic, my second daughter doesn't attend Mass, and my son did not complete his confirmation. And what could I expect since I am so slack in this area myself, and my wife really is not a Catholic except in name since she converted only because she married me.

My father is very disappointed in me, and with his other children who are wandering from the faith. My younger sister has declared she is an atheist, my other sister married a Muslim, and I've been missing Mass for years.

And really its all about my father, since he controls me with guilt.

And so I guilt him back. Why didn't you do something while Mom was hitting me? Why did you just stand there and let it happen? And then he gets upset, and so I don't do that any more. What's the point?

Any way, I'm rambling. There's really no point in this except to say that things have not worked out for me the way I hoped. And now I've learned that things don't work that way. God never promised that those who follow him would acheive success, fame and happiness in this life. It is childish to think so, and I guess I have to stop being a child.

But Mass does nothing for me. I do not feel God's presence at Mass and I do not feel inspired to pray to him at any time. I feel an emptiness instead, and a longing that my struggle in this world could finally, mercifully end.

So really, that's where I am right now. Any comments?

---

I don't care if we are being rude to you. Big deal, The Atheist Church isn't spending millions of dollars on Atheist conversion programs. You know why? Because those things don't exist. Meanwhile the Catholic church is dying as they spend millions and perhaps billions of dollars.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pas...erica.html

I'll highlight my favorite part for you.

"A breakdown of overall attendance percentages by church type shows decreases across the board in evangelical, mainline and Catholic churches.

The most significant drop in attendance came at the expense of the Catholic Church, which experienced an 11% decrease in its attendance percentage from 2000 to 2004. Next, and not far behind were mainline churches, which saw a 10% percentage decline. Evangelicals experienced the smallest drop at 1%. "

Meanwhile Atheism has almost doubled in the last 20 years.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/20...ARIS_N.htm

That's without us even caring. So go back to your church and take whatever comfort you want in it. We don't care.

Well, ok, I'm trying to be nice but if you don't want to do that I will put you on ignore and pay attention to the people who want to talk constructively.

---

So anyway, that's what I'm going to do. I am not going to continue this war that started when I first got here. I am going to stick to the subject and talk to people who want to talk to me in a respectful, polite, constructive fashion.

And anyone who doesn't want to talk to me respectfully, politely, and constructively will quickly join my ignore list.

And in that way, I will not lose my temper and go back to the way things went when I first got here.

[TaraJo]

Anyway, let's start over.

My name is Blackrook and I'm a Catholic in crisis and I'm here to get some answers to some questions I have.

Catholicism has been a great comfort to me when I had feelings that I didn't want to live, and felt like killing myself.

I felt God's presence, literally reaching out to me and telling me I was loved.

Even now, in my current state of pessimism, I can look forward to something better after my bitter struggle in this world is complete.

What can atheism offer to replace that?

Ironic. My experience was the exact opposite. I saw some of the pain and unfairness and suffering in the world and couldn't understand how such a benevolent, all powerful god could allow it all to happen. That led to doubt which led to a deal I've made to any supernatural being out there: you reach out to me, I'll believe in you. So far, nobody has taken me up on that bargain.

Anyway, if Catholicism brings you comfort, that's all good for you. If it helps you feel better and you don't hurt anyone else because of it, you can believe in whatever you want (even if it is factually incorrect). Just don't try to push it onto me, ok? I'll respect your right to believe as long as you respect my right not to believe.

[Mister Agenda]

Thanks for attempting a fresh start, Blackrook.

First, I'm glad you found a reason to go on. Maybe you should stick with what's working for you. This is not another 'I don't want you to be an atheist' comment. I mean, if you're in a delicate place, maybe now is not the time to rock the boat.

Atheism doesn't offer anything at all. Neither does theism. Both are just positions on the question of whether or not God exists and are too narrow to contain a worldview. You're a theist, but you're not just a theist, you're a Catholic and that says a lot more about you than just saying you're a theist does. There's more to atheists than atheism, but we don't usually get that far in the conversation with theists. Different atheists have different worldviews. Western atheists tend to be secular politically, humanist ethically, and rational skeptics epistemologically; but there are a lot of exceptions. If this board were in Chinese or Russian, you'd get a whole different brand of atheist predominating.

The reason to be an atheist isn't in what it has to offer. The only reason to be an atheist is if you've come to the conclusion that God isn't real, and by then you are one.