Divine Inspiration

[Drich]

If they weren't really slaves, then why did god send terrible plagues in order to free them?

Because appearently pharroh got confused.

It annoys me when some people can't handle not having a big brother watching thm, so they assume that everyone else is like that. On the contrary, god will forgive you for almost anything if you just ask, whereas atheists can't find closure so easily. The short film (posted somewhere on this forum) called "Jesus: Madman or Worse" brings up the fact that being forgiven by god can serve as a replacement to forgiveness from the person you actualy wronged. If you didn't wrong anyone, then there is no need to ask for forgiveness (though many things that hurt no one are still called 'sins')

I don't really watch those films for this very reason: The person who made that film does not have a firm grasp on the fundamentals of Christianity. in that we are not to worship God untill we resolve issues (or atleast do everything we can to resolve an issue.) However the video guy will not be able to defend what he has said.

I believe that this discussion has already been had earlier (maybe not on this thread). The general conclusion was that 20+ years of religion, and training + a desire to be a pastor weren't worth a mustard seed of faith.

I don't remember this conversation, but the desire to pastor can be selfish in orgin. If one apporaches God for the purpose gain then nothing will be assured. Meaning no one can say God will show up and make the effort needed to break a man of his orginal intentions.

Well, if god already knows who will 'choose' him, then are you saying that god refuses to reveal himself to people who wouldn't follow anyway?

Yes

Then what about all of the theistic satanists?

I give up what does it say about theistic satanists?

By your first sentence, you suggest that god could simply save those who would be faithful if they believed. Perhaps I interpreted you wrong, but it would make the most sense to do it that way, if he won't reveal himself to everyone.

God reveals himself to those who A/S/K, and can save anyone from their disbelief IF the so choose to be saved. The thing is not everyone who goes through the motions of A/S/K chooses to be saved.

Here's the problem: you assume that god must exist. If someone takes a more neutral stance and A/S/Ks for 20 years and finds nothing, then why is it unreasonable to assume that god does not exist?

truthfully it would depend on the actual effort and the condition of the man's heart. If the effort matches what is outlined in Luke 11 then God promises to show up. However if the man does his own version of A/S/K then nothing is bound to happen, and at that point can assume anything he likes. Because after 20 years He does not yeild himself to the calling and the promise offered God might as well be non-existant as far as he is concerned.

Those who are desperate to believe will see what they want to, the unbiased will end up not believeing.

indeed. do you assume all who are looking for God are desperate to find Him?

How valid is a dream as a sign from god? How about this:http://atheistforums.org/thread-12234.ht...+in+heaven
I believe these 'experiences' are for the dreamer/see-er. That said the boy's experience is no more valid than my own to anyone who did not experience what he did.
for so much is lost in trying to explain what actually takes place that the core of the experience looses all real value to anyone who does not experience these things for themselves. The only reason i share what i do is because i know there is nothing special about me and if any of you wish to see or experience what i have then all any of you must do is earnestly ask, seek, and Knock as I did and God WILL Show up.

Just be ready for your life to be turned on it's ear. For once something like that happens everything will need to change. Not because 'church' says so. Because you will want to change.

Exactly, it is no less unbelieveable than anything else in the bible. I know that the story isn't about the logistics, but if the logistics fail, then the story is only a metaphor. The story never said that god gave any aid to Noah other than advance warning, so while the flood was an act of god, the ark and animal collecting were not.

Read the story again. God provided everything (including the animals)

Oh, and about evolution. It cancels creation because it implies a common ancestor, whereas creation says god made many different animals at the same time in their fully evolved (as to 3000 years ago)forms. (You can ignore this last part if you really want to...)

i guess you did not read the whole thread. well somewhere in the middle of that one I was given a chance to tell you all what i thought this link is to the CF version of the same story.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7643307/

[Darkstar]

[The Grand Nudger]

Miracles™, Mysterious Ways™. Think that should handle all of the above questions.

[Drich]

[Darkstar]

[Drich]

going a way for a few day but will answer a few of these. I will try and answer the rest if I have time/Lord willing.

[quote='Darkstar' pid='344472' dateline='1349223270']
[hide][quote='Drich' pid='344391' dateline='1349211986']
[quote]I haven't seen the movie, so I don't know if it would answer my question (I know, I could watch it right now, but...). I still think you would get stepped on, but I'm not promoting vigilanteism if that's what you're thinking.[/quote] If you get time I think it can been see on netflix.

[quote]Then why do we need to confess to god at all? Wouldn't he already know?[/quote]Religion says that. The bible say we must repent from our sins. To repent is not to 'confess' or even stop sinning.. It is the turning from a want to sin or desire to not sin. That and forgiving others are the two big changes we have to strive to make in our lives. that means we must openly and honestly identify all sins in our lives, so we can turn from them.

[quote]If that is true, then belief and worship shouldn't be necessary. If our heart is in the right place, it shouldn't matter.[/quote]If your heart is truly in the right place you can not help But to believe and worship (Speaking from experience) Your heart will learn to ache to worship and show your belief.

[quote]The hell thing was just a general statement. You felt empty and needed something to fill the void: god. The thing is, A/S/K sometimes creates the illusion of actually working because if people try hard enough and for long enough, they can will themselves into believing almost anything. [/quote]Only for a time.

[quote]A dream or vague emotion that would be written off as completely normal is then interpreted as a sign from god. However, an unambiguous sign (outside a dream, and dreams to to contain images and ideas that are on one's own mind) will never manifest.[/quote]
Messenger/Message is a thread i did sharing one such 'unambiguous sign." http://atheistforums.org/thread-13378.html

[quote]First, you say god gave you the dream but you have no way of knowing this is true[/quote]The reason I knew this was not from me is because there were aspects of Hell and the final judgement being protrayed that I knew nothing about or simply did not understand till I did more reasearch.

[quote] (you even put evidence is quotation marks). If you are looking for a god, any god, regardless of existnence or no, you will eventually find something you can call a sign, even if other, more plausible, explanations are available.[/quote] the reason I quoted 'evidence' is because it was not meant to be generally accepted as 'evidence.' this was my 'evidence.'

[quote]So you seem confident that the kid got an actual message from god, then. So tell me this: every year there are people who kill someone and claim that god told them it had to be done. They are disbelieved only on the account that their act was violent. If they claimed that god had told them to do something else, they would have been believed. How do you know that they really didn't take out one of satan's minions for god? I bet you'll say they didn't, but then why is their story not believeable? They have just as much evidence as you do.[/quote]Because the message they Got does not coinside with what the Holy Spirit has revealed in the bible. We are told that God will not contradict Himself by giving you a command that countermands scripture. there are many deceiving spirits who claim to be God. (That is how many 'prophets' believe they have talked with God.) When I took my experience and looked up someof the things i experienced they were confirmed by the bible, and did not contradict what was written.

[quote]There was a thread on which of god's attributes were actually put into humans, and which weren't. I don't believe that this would fall into that category. http://atheistforums.org/thread-15028.ht...e+a+retard
Also, you may have had an inkling that it would end badly, but you didn't know it for a fact.[/quote]after 5 years of this you know. without doubt.

[quote]Creating humans only to kill 99.9%+ of them is on a whole other level from what you said.[/quote]was it only humans God killed?

[Darkstar]

[Minimalist]

It was based off the histories of the Kingdoms of Judah and Israel.

A baseless assumption on your part as there is no indication that such books existed.

Oral legend is far more likely and those are, of course, easily manipulated.

[Drich]

We wouldn't need to know of god to feel guilt and turn away from immoral acts. If we did, it wouldn't really be sincere.

What about white lies? Gossip, anger towards another? Are these immoral you would naturally turn from? To God these sins (that our morality as trivalized are the greatest sins we can commit according to God.)

Morality is a crap standard that gives one a false sense of righteousness. That is why Christ identified the 'morality' of the preists of his day as "Self Righteousness." So everytime you wish to use you 'motality' as a standard to look down on or superceed the expressed will of God substitute that word 'morality' with self righteousness.

Then I guess I'm a terrible person because I don't believe.

congats! admitting that you are a 'terriable person is a step in the right direction of repentance.
"We" are all terriable people.

Confirmation bias can perpetuate it, especially because god works in 'mysterious' ways, so you don't really need something specific for it to be a sign.

"God working in mysterious ways' is an answer given to the young in the faith. To one who has trouble unerdstanding that one is not in the business of trading 'good deeds' for favors with God. Meaning if one lives a 'good life' he is not assured of always being provided what he wants or the life he wants to live. If this person's minds set can not comperhend a God beyond the one who trades 'good deeds' for the good life then "God works in mysterious ways" is all the answer that person will be able to comperhend. If you want an answer beyond that one then learn to sek God on His terms and stop trying to make God fit your understanding of Him.

Now, I'm not going to accuse you of lying, but there are still some things from that thread that are worth noting.

I have been told when someone says something, then says "But" then everything before the "but" is null and void.

Not only were the predictions given fairly vague, but they could have become self-fulfilling prophecies (ex. "He told me of comming prosperity, but not for my benfit so I could live in luxuary, but so I could help others.(Which I am doing)" could be that you are giving money because he said you would, or that he was simply offering advice).

I have been literally given a winning lottery tickets worth of money. from a man I had only met maybe once or twice before and only in passing, and I could have spent it any way I wish. The prophecy however told me how to spend it, and I did/am doing. i did what I was told, and God is being faithful to the promise I have been given. For i am on the brink of 10x's what I had orginally been given.

Memory is a funny thing, you could have accidentally filled in his predictions with things that had already happened.

Ah, no. I was driving a 1964 Ranchero/Falcon (that i paid 500 dollars for) with seats that were not attached to the car and a plywood floors, with no heat or defrost, (Which was very memoriable because of how cold it was that day/evening) oh and I was living with my Father. so no confusion there about my finances.

Also, why would he introduce himself as a psychic instead of an angel?

He didn't. He said "I am what you might call a psychic."

If I was making this up don't you think after 15 years of telling this story I know enough to cut that bit out? I am being faithful to what has been said and faithful to the experience. He used the word Psychic but did not fully commit to it. I can only assume the reason he did this was to allow those of you who do not want to believe an out or a way to dismiss the account without forcing to accept or completely lie to yourself to overcome these events.
As a side note this also helped me develop the understanding as to the reason why does not provide absolute proof for everyone.

If the event seems real to you, you probably think I'm just being too suspicious, but if I told you a similar story, but replaced the word god with the word satan, you might understand where I'm coming from. Also, why is it that individual people say that they've had experiences with god that bettered their lives, when all of the starving children in Africa are completely ignored?

How have they been ignored? There are many thousands of missionaries that dedicate their lives to Africa each year.. Or do you mean why God hasn't forced you or those like you to do something about the need you see in Africa?

God orders several genocides in the bible, so that isn't really a contradiction.

Noope

But; does god make mistakes? If yes, then he isn't perfect. If no, then why was he disappointed if he planned it all along?

Maybe when you gain a few more life experiences you will understand. There is nothing else I care to share that can help me communicate this to you. all I can say, is that even if you know how something will work out it is still very possiable to be disappointed with the outcome.

[Darkstar]