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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 12:39 pm
(October 19, 2012 at 11:10 am)Hoptoad Wrote: When I packed in Atheism all them years ago and started on this path, all religions where open to me and looked at, studied. I just picked at that time what I thought was the easiest one, truth is I was led to it.
See?
The next cause for religion after birth is personal choice. Isn't it really weird how christians say (at least some) 'we know this is the one true religion. Other religions say good deeds merit eternal life; they do not. Only by accepting Jesus can we be forgiven'. Uhhh...don't you think that the whole 'accept Jesus and be saved' thing actually makes your religion sound less credible? Lets' see, given your ideas of human's 'sinful' nature, which religion do you think is more likely to be genuine, and which was created by self-serving humans?
1. You must do good things to warrent eternal life.
2. Accept Jesus and you don't have to do anything else!
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm
I'm not sure we've had any well thought out answer to the core question from Christians. How can anyone who is religious not recognize the accident of birth that places them in a specific culture or religion, and yet they often believe other religions are false.
Oh, I'm hoping for too much appealing to reason.
blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” – John 20:26-29
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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 1:47 pm
(October 19, 2012 at 12:39 pm)Darkstar Wrote: (October 19, 2012 at 11:10 am)Hoptoad Wrote: When I packed in Atheism all them years ago and started on this path, all religions where open to me and looked at, studied. I just picked at that time what I thought was the easiest one, truth is I was led to it.
See?
The next cause for religion after birth is personal choice. Isn't it really weird how christians say (at least some) 'we know this is the one true religion. Other religions say good deeds merit eternal life; they do not. Only by accepting Jesus can we be forgiven'. Uhhh...don't you think that the whole 'accept Jesus and be saved' thing actually makes your religion sound less credible? Lets' see, given your ideas of human's 'sinful' nature, which religion do you think is more likely to be genuine, and which was created by self-serving humans?
1. You must do good things to warrent eternal life.
2. Accept Jesus and you don't have to do anything else!
I think I said, any church is just a start.
There are only two commandments, Love God and love your fellow man. Of the two, love your fellow man is the one you act on first. See the gifts to temples bit.
Christ's life is an example as to how to put those commandments in action, If you follow those instructions you have got it right , even if you have never read the bible or heard of J.C.
If any church is more important than those two things you have got it wrong.
God Christ, Christ God same thing. Points one and two, make the above instructions part of your life and you cover both points.
If your going to ask me if an atheist who is a good man and loves his fellow man but cannot believe in God will be saved. I don't know its not my call, I don't judge people, I don't know them that's Gods call not mine.
That's me done see you at some future time.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 8:59 pm
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2012 at 9:03 pm by John V.)
(October 19, 2012 at 8:19 am)Faith No More Wrote: You can dismiss it all you like, but the fact of the matter is that the surrounding culture plays a strong factor in determining to what religion a person will turn. If people want to be honest with themselves about why they believe what they believe, the role that culture plays in those beliefs must be considered. Who's dismissing it? I agreed with it. Why shouldn't I - you said it's not problematic for Christianity.
(October 19, 2012 at 11:34 am)Ryantology Wrote: The question is asked of Christians specifically because Christians believe in a personal God who takes an active interest in their lives. What is implied here is that God is a lot more interested in people born in Tennessee than he is about people born in Tehran. Yes. For a long time he was mostly interested with Israel alone. He says plainly that he'll have mercy on whom he'll have mercy. So, how is this surprising or problematic?
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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 9:21 pm
(October 19, 2012 at 8:59 pm)John V Wrote: (October 19, 2012 at 8:19 am)Faith No More Wrote: You can dismiss it all you like, but the fact of the matter is that the surrounding culture plays a strong factor in determining to what religion a person will turn. If people want to be honest with themselves about why they believe what they believe, the role that culture plays in those beliefs must be considered. Who's dismissing it? I agreed with it. Why shouldn't I - you said it's not problematic for Christianity.
(October 19, 2012 at 11:34 am)Ryantology Wrote: The question is asked of Christians specifically because Christians believe in a personal God who takes an active interest in their lives. What is implied here is that God is a lot more interested in people born in Tennessee than he is about people born in Tehran. Yes. For a long time he was mostly interested with Israel alone. He says plainly that he'll have mercy on whom he'll have mercy. So, how is this surprising or problematic?
The problem is that if another religion is right, yours most likely is then wrong. If you admit that social factors and not actual proof were the main reason for your being a christian, then perhaps another religion is actually the right one. Of course, if at least most of them are wrong (as they contradict each other) it is not unreasonable to consider that they are all wrong.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 19, 2012 at 10:59 pm
(October 18, 2012 at 12:01 am)Godschild Wrote: If I were to be born of different parents then I would not be me, isn't that correct. I say yes, but that is because we are strictly a product of genetics, bio-chemicals and environment. Because you believe in that 'soul' thing, you are obligated to accept that you are who you are from the 'soul' and not from the body. Therefore, you will still be you under any circumstances. Statistics, however, prove otherwise.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
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Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 20, 2012 at 6:51 am
(October 19, 2012 at 9:21 pm)Darkstar Wrote: The problem is that if another religion is right, yours most likely is then wrong. If you admit that social factors and not actual proof were the main reason for your being a christian, then perhaps another religion is actually the right one. Of course, if at least most of them are wrong (as they contradict each other) it is not unreasonable to consider that they are all wrong. This is another instance of It's not just a question for Christians then. If Islam is correct, then you're wrong as well. Yet, maybe if you had been born in Pakistan to Muslim parents, you'd be different.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm
(October 20, 2012 at 6:51 am)John V Wrote: This is another instance of It's not just a question for Christians then. If Islam is correct, then you're wrong as well. Yet, maybe if you had been born in Pakistan to Muslim parents, you'd be different.
Yes. We are not smarter. We are lucky to not be indoctrinated.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Question for Christians
October 20, 2012 at 2:29 pm
(October 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Yes. We are not smarter. We are lucky to not be indoctrinated. "We" is an inaccurate generalization. There are atheists who were indoctrinated in a belief, theists who weren't indoctrinated...all sorts of people, in general and on these boards.
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RE: Question for Christians
October 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm
How might one be indoctrinated into a belief when the only statement being made by atheism is a lack of belief? Boggles the mind.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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