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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 24, 2012 at 10:39 am
(This post was last modified: October 24, 2012 at 10:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(October 24, 2012 at 10:28 am)John V Wrote: First, feel free to bow out. I get the feeling that, while you're aproaching 11,000 total posts, you're approaching 11 quality posts. Probably right, a good 90% or better is me responding to shit like this, there is no opportunity for quality.
Quote:Second, perhaps you don't understand the flow of this line of the discussion. It goes like this:
A: There's no contemporaneous Roman documentation of the claims of Christianity.
There you go again.
Quote:C: This is an argument from silience. To be valid, you need to support that we should reasonably expect to find contemporaneous Roman documentation of the claims of Christianity.
What would I be arguing? It's a simple statement of fact. Another simple statement of fact is that romans did record various religious claims (so many and so often that a large portion of what we know of the classical world and pagan europe is, to varying degrees, thanks to them). Just what do you imagine that I would even argue with this?
Quote:A: OK, here's Tacitus talking about Druids.
Correct, he spoke of druids (maybe...but maybe he just made this shit up........"historians" did that sort of thing).
Quote:C: OK, here's Tacitus talking about Jesus.
Where? I can't find any reference to Jesus.
Quote:A: Tacitus wasn't a contemporary of Jesus, so that's not contemporaneous Roman documentation of the claims of Christianity.
He wasn't, and?
Quote:C: If Tacitus wasn't a contemporary of Jesus, then you still haven't given any support to the claim that we should reasonably expect to find contemporaneous Roman documentation of the claims of Christianity.
You don't even realize what you've been doing do you...lol
Quote:A: You're a moron, why do we even bother talking to you!!!
I don't think you're a moron. I think your responses have been disingenuous. A "moron" can be educated. You seem determined to persist in this shit no matter how well or how often your objections are noted and overcome.
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 24, 2012 at 11:50 am
Quote:C: This is an argument from silience.
And a valid one for reasons previously expressed which seem to have gone over your head....which is commonplace among you people.
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 9:29 am
(October 19, 2012 at 5:17 am)pocaracas Wrote: Rome == Italy:
![[Image: rome-1.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i191.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz226%2Fpocaracas%2FAF%2Frome-1.jpg)
This was the roman empire at the time of Christ:
![[Image: mapromanempireintimeofj.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=img507.imageshack.us%2Fimg507%2F9471%2Fmapromanempireintimeofj.gif)
They could move from one side of it to the other through the Mediterranean sea. Yes the bounderies were huge. Every place you mentioned is contained within the roman empire at the time of Christ.
I'll sum up your argument as this "you can't verify the source of where the 27 NT books come from because they're scatted from one end of the roman empire to the other, and they were supposed to come from Jerusalem".
Well that argument can't even support itself on the evidence you gave us. Read the book of Acts, it talks about the spread of the early Church, and Matt 28:19 where Jesus tells the disciples to spread the Church: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".
BTW, it makes no difference WHERE most of them were written anyway. And it also makes no difference that Paul used scribes to write his epistles rather than writing them himself.
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 9:31 am
Er... hi?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 9:34 am
Who the fuck are you Daniel??
By the by 
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 11:51 am
(October 31, 2012 at 9:29 am)Daniel Wrote: They could move from one side of it to the other through the Mediterranean sea. Yes the bounderies were huge. Every place you mentioned is contained within the roman empire at the time of Christ.
I'll sum up your argument as this "you can't verify the source of where the 27 NT books come from because they're scatted from one end of the roman empire to the other, and they were supposed to come from Jerusalem".
My point is not that they couldn't move from one place to the other....
The point was that whatever story was propagated along those vast reaches couldn't be verified by the local population. So those "leading churches" had unverified accounts which are today claimed to be "true, because the eye witnesses wouldn't allow those accounts to be false".
Curiously, Jerusalem is not counted as one of the "leading churches"... Maybe they were too "orthodox"...
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Quote:BTW, it makes no difference WHERE most of them were written anyway. And it also makes no difference that Paul used scribes to write his epistles rather than writing them himself.
Horseshit, Danny.
Read Bart Ehrman's "Forged" and learn all about your fucking "scriptures."
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 1:21 pm
(This post was last modified: October 31, 2012 at 1:21 pm by Undeceived.)
(October 31, 2012 at 11:51 am)pocaracas Wrote: (October 31, 2012 at 9:29 am)Daniel Wrote: They could move from one side of it to the other through the Mediterranean sea. Yes the bounderies were huge. Every place you mentioned is contained within the roman empire at the time of Christ.
I'll sum up your argument as this "you can't verify the source of where the 27 NT books come from because they're scatted from one end of the roman empire to the other, and they were supposed to come from Jerusalem".
My point is not that they couldn't move from one place to the other....
The point was that whatever story was propagated along those vast reaches couldn't be verified by the local population. So those "leading churches" had unverified accounts which are today claimed to be "true, because the eye witnesses wouldn't allow those accounts to be false".
Curiously, Jerusalem is not counted as one of the "leading churches"... Maybe they were too "orthodox"... Every one of Paul's letters was sent to a church and then circulated amongst the churches. They knew how Paul wrote--they had met him personally. He and other Apostles like Peter or helpers like Timothy, Erastus, Barnabas and Philip visited the churches often. They could verify a writing simply by sending a letter to the author. If the author left no address, it would not be accepted. None of the circulated works were anonymous. They all had introductions communicating faith in the writing the church was passing along--a letter separate from the main text. Trusted authors recommended other authors. This is how the Biblical canon was put together: three hundred-plus bishops from the three hundred church areas around the empire came together and voiced which books their area was already using. Largely, they agreed.
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Quote:Every one of Paul's letters was sent to a church and then circulated amongst the churches.
And Luke Skywalker blew up the Death Star by dropping a bomb down its asshole.
You know what Star Wars and your fucking bible have in common? Both are fiction. These things only happen within the pages of one book.
They exist no where in the real world.
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RE: How did the writings of the NT come to be?
October 31, 2012 at 4:53 pm
(October 31, 2012 at 11:51 am)pocaracas Wrote: My point is not that they couldn't move from one place to the other....
The point was that whatever story was propagated along those vast reaches couldn't be verified by the local population.
But that's introducing another layer of evidence that you're expecting to see. Historians believed for over 2000 years that the Egyptian pyramids were built by slaves because of something written 450BC by Herodotus, a Greek!! That's one of my favourite examples of history gone wrong!
Quote:Curiously, Jerusalem is not counted as one of the "leading churches"... Maybe they were too "orthodox"...
Jerusalem was taken by siege in 70AD, if the early church hadn't expanded its "borders" by then, then it wouldn't have survived would it? The early church spread quite quickly.
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