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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 25, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Coming at this from a different angle.
We know Q from star trek is not a god but a powerful alien, he has many of the aspects of a god so what makes him not a god?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_(Star_Trek)
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 25, 2012 at 2:39 pm
First, there are so many different definitions of gods among believers that you really need to define your specific god to get a good answer to the OP question.
This also goes to a question I have often asked believers, which concerns how your god's magic works? Are god's magical powers due to supernatural abilities, or are they due to science which we don't understand?
Ultimately the call on supernatural or not might come down to your god's creation. If he created the Universe, he's supernatural by definition, since he is not "of" the Universe. If he was created from within the Universe, he might be of nature, or natural, but he could also just be an alien from another world - in other words not really a god, but just advanced enough for us not to be able to tell the difference.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2012 at 2:55 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
By "God" I mean the typical definition of "creator of the universe", and I'm questioning why he can't be natural rather than supernatural.
Quote:If he created the Universe, he's supernatural by definition, since he is not "of" the Universe.
Isn't that completely indistinguisible from him being the original and undetectable part of nature that produced the rest of it? If so, why is he defined as a creator of the universe rather than part of the universe that produced the rest? Why is the supernatural interpretation considered more valid than a natural one? That's what I'm questioning.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 25, 2012 at 3:07 pm
(This post was last modified: October 25, 2012 at 3:10 pm by Brian37.)
(October 24, 2012 at 6:35 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: I'll take "He works in mysterious ways" for $200, Alex.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm
(October 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: By "God" I mean the typical definition of "creator of the universe", and I'm questioning why he can't be natural rather than supernatural.
Quote:If he created the Universe, he's supernatural by definition, since he is not "of" the Universe.
Isn't that completely indistinguisible from him being the original and undetectable part of nature that produced the rest of it?
Again, it's your god so you'll have to answer - did he create himself?
(October 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: If so, why is he defined as a creator of the universe rather than part of the universe that produced the rest?
I may be missing your point but I think it's the bible that defined him this way.
(October 25, 2012 at 2:54 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: Why is the supernatural interpretation considered more valid than a natural one? That's what I'm questioning.
Considered more valid by whom? Most people here don't consider the idea of god valid, let alone worrying about whether to classify the myth as natural or supernatural.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm
(This post was last modified: October 26, 2012 at 1:41 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 25, 2012 at 3:31 pm)Tino Wrote: Again, it's your god so you'll have to answer - did he create himself?
It's "my god" in the sense that I defined him as the creator of the universe, but what I'm saying is that that could be interpreted as God creating the universe by explanding his natural self or by being supernatural and literally creating the natural universe outside himself.
Quote:I may be missing your point but I think it's the bible that defined him this way.
Did the bible mention that God was a non-natural being that created nature? If not, could he not have been the original part of nature that produced some more nature?
Quote:Considered more valid by whom?
Most theists. If you read the OP you will notice that I'm questioning why theists believe God is non-natural.
I'm asking anyone who wants to answer: Why do theists interpret God as being non-natural? When the bible says God created the universe, where does it say that he's necessarily non-natural rather than a natural being that created the universe by producing more of himself?
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 26, 2012 at 4:27 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: Why do theists interpret God as being non-natural?
If they didn't, they would have to admit that he should have been discovered by now, even if only indirectly.
(October 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm)DoubtVsFaith Wrote: When the bible says God created the universe, where does it say that he's necessarily non-natural rather than a natural being that created the universe by producing more of himself?
It didn't.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
It says that god was hovering over the waters, as in he had a physical location over the earth. It says he created the heavens (sky or heaven?) and the earth. It does not say he created the entire universe. I'm tempted to dissect the whole of Genesis 1, but that would probably be off topic for this thread.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 26, 2012 at 5:46 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 4:27 pm)Darkstar Wrote: If they didn't, they would have to admit that he should have been discovered by now, even if only indirectly.
No, absence of evidence for something doesn't mean it isn't there. The natural sciences may be unable to detect parts of nature that actually exist.
Quote:It didn't
Good point, but my point is that when the bible said God created whatever parts of nature it says he created, it doesn't say anywhere that he isn't the original part of nature that created the rest of it. So why is he interpreted as non-natural?
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 26, 2012 at 5:56 pm
I think the issue is that place and time limit a being. As putting any limit on the being, would make equals possible, the concept of uniqueness of God is only rational if you assume he is unlimited due to being ultimate.
But time and place is limited. So he must be beyond time and place from this perspective.
Unlimited being would be supernatural, because everything in the natural world is limited.
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RE: If God exists, what is it about his essence that makes him supernatural?
October 28, 2012 at 11:13 am
(This post was last modified: October 28, 2012 at 11:21 am by Edwardo Piet.)
Scientifically: Everything in the scientifically detectable parts of the natural world is limited.
Philosophically: How do we know there isn't a scientifically undetectable part or parts of the natural world that is unlimited? How do we know that nature has limits? You may say that some things are logically limited - so that's the limit to nature - but in a strange sort of way you'd be wrong because if those things are logically limited, they're logically impossible so they're not "things" they're nothing at all, so they can't be limits of logic, because a limit to logic would be something because everything is something.
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