In the Beginning Man Was Stupid

[Napoléon]

you're comparing me to a nazi because I think you and all fundies are idiots.
Guess what? That comparison isn't helping your case any.

Not only isn't it helping his case, it's showing him up to be just as stereotypical as what he's claiming you are and he is not.

[Drich]

Well done Drich, well done.

Mental image of two christian fundies high fiving each other........

And missing......

That is why i have since gone with the wonder twins fist bump... (Missed too many high fives..)

[Cyberman]

There's one way to find out if Cinj is a Nazi. Does he know how to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duX4tIFocvY

[Cinjin]

That is why i have since gone with the wonder twins fist bump... (Missed too many high fives..)

yeah we've seen something similar.

[Gambit]

For: The germans are comming (If you are reading this.) This is an example of cinny, attempting to discredit and dismiss another human beings (or rather an entire community's) entire thought process accross the board, simply because these other people do not think as he does... Now who else in History (in the last generation or two) has also done this, in the regulation of of a very specific take on a set of given facts... Think hard. (Hint: If your having trouble ask your grandfather he maybe able to help.)

No he isn't, you moron. Here's an example to help you understand: Muslims believe that Allah is the one true God, Mohammad is the highest prophet, and Jesus is a lesser prophet. Now, reconcile that with your belief system without dismissing theirs. I'll wait.

You truly are so deluded that you cannot see it, Drich. I said it in another thread but I'll say it again; you are accusing others of doing what you do every day. You have to stretch to make everything you believe make sense, then deny evidence that doesn't need to stretch.

And that is because "You attempt to discredit and dismiss another human being's (or rather an entire community's) entire thought process across the board, simply because these other people do not think as you do... Now who else in History (in the last 2000 years) has also done this, in the regulation of of a very specific take on a set of given facts... Think hard. Hint: If your having trouble, study the history of Christianity, it may be able to help.)" I fixed the preceding quote to reflect reality, in case you still don't get it.

[Cinjin]

I find this rather odd: "more crafty than any of the wild animals?" Why is Lucifer referred to as just one of the wild animals??

The word that was translated into animal is the Hebrew word:chay
It simply refers to anything living or alive, and because Lucifer took the form of the snake the word was translated to reflect the shape he favored.

That doesn't offer up an explanation, not that it matters as this is not a very big point, but still you've explained nothing. Why would the delusional primitive, oops I mean author of Genesis, leave out the fact that it was Lucifer. That would seem like a pretty important point to me. How do we even know it was indeed Lucifer at this point? My only point - the Bible is meant to be subject to interpretation from the very beginning.

Interesting: The serpent didn't lie.

Like Obi Wan did lie about Vader killing Luke's father.. Because according to Obi, it was 'true from a certain point of view.'

You use the apologists "point of view" every single day around here. One could easily argue that you are far more guilty of this offense than anyone here. The apologists' entire debate is based on context and point of view. Another religious hypocrite. Nothing new here.

They did find out the difference between good and evil (well sort of, the only thing they seemed to find out is that it's evil to be naked with your spouse).
Also, "you shall surely die" is quite a stretch when in fact they allegedly lived another 3 centuries and it stands to reason that neither of them went to hell since clearly they would have definitely believed in their creator and that would void out the possibility of Drich's favorite - "the second death." Although admittedly, I wouldn't put it past their narcissistic god to toss 'em into hell just cause he can.

Since you mentioned the second death but used it in the wrong context I am assuming you do not need me to set up all of the Hebrew words again. so i will just clarify.

Adam and Eve were created with Eternal life. They were immortal (and I can cut and paste the hebrew words if you like) when they ate of the fruit of the tree of knoweledge. The immortal Adam and Eve died, and God gave them lives as Mortals. Adam's life as a mortal lasted 930 years. we know this to be different than the life he lived in the garden is the same word that describes the life or breath of God. The 930 years refers to the same water sustained life that all mortal life shares. so yes everything they knew of life died when they ate of the tree of knoweledge. The Devil wan kenobi was right in that they did not die as the animals who were sacerficed to provide them with cloths to wear died. But again absolutly Everything they knew of life in the garden with God died, when they ate of the fruit. God gave them new lives to live outside the garden.

In other words ... they DIDN'T DIE.
Greasy sophistry from a guy who just got done bashing "point of view." **insert MASSIVE eyeroll here**

oh and a bonus... you didn't even address the knowledge of good and evil and the glaring fact that the only thing they learned was the fact that they were naked. Which of course is bull shit, since god clearly considered Eve to be his wife and her nudity would NOT have been a sin whatsoever. Add that to the fact that there was supposedly no one else in the entirety of Mesopotamia to see the MARRIED couple walking around in the natural bodies that GOD gave them.

This passage of scripture is far more likely a testament to the long enduring sexual insecurity of middle eastern men who, even way back when the Bible was written, wanted to express how naughty and sinful naked people are, but STILL couldn't come up with a legitimate way to put it down on paper so it would make any fucking sense.

Adam and Eve's big lesson from eating the fruit had nothing to do with murder, theft and rape. Nope, the only thing they found out was that they their god wanted them to cover up their genitals. No wonder Cain eventually killed Able ... they didn't learn jack shit.

Please give me your apologists POINT of VIEW on this one. I'm sure it will be free of your usual sophistry.

He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

Isn't god just being a bit of a dick now?? I mean he is all knowing isn't he? Either god's being an arrogant prick right here or he really doesn't know jack shit.

Or He is giving his little buddy an oppertunity to come clean.

WHAT?! His "little buddy" did come clean ... immediately ... and surprise surprise, your asshole wizard still tossed him out of the garden and the rest of humanity into eventual eternal torment. Hey thanks for the "opportunity" mr wizard!

Now I know these three verses are an apologist's wet dream, but lets face it, the wording leaves some guessing.
We all know that the serpent is Lucifer, aka, the Devil, the Great Tempter. So is god cursing Lucifer or is he cursing the snake family?
Because CLEARLY Lucifer is not condemned to slithering around on his belly.

Compared to his orginal station as God's right hand he is.

Apologists' POINT OF VIEW defense ... AGAIN. I'm going to go ahead and call these out as APOV from now on. It'll save time, but what I want you to remember, is that you have no basis for this defense, it is merely your way of justifying piss-poor writing and contradiction after contradiction.

In fact the bible brags of Lucifer's beauty and his powerful abilities on this planet.

He went from having these powers to having nothing.

No he didn't. He still has great power. In Ephesians, Satan is called the ruler of the kingdom of the air. John even tells us that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. That doesn't sound like a being who is going to be slithering around on his belly every day. You can't change whats written Drich. It clearly says word for word that he would be cursed to slither on his belly forever. Nope. Another glaring contradiction.

So exactly who is god cursing here? Certainly not the devil, cause if he is, apparently god's curses are pretty damn pathetic especially considering that Lucifer himself eventually walks and talks with Christ.

Read job. Everything the devil does has to go through God first. Lucifer is not the god of the underworld nor an opposing force to God. Lucifer has been defeated, and serves a purpose in his limited rebellion.

A filthy apologists twist of words. You're trying to change the argument. We are not debating who has more power in your Bible. Clearly god has the alleged "winning hand." The debate here is only the curse that god put on Lucifer that has clearly NEVER been enforced and I don't know any christian besides yourself who would claim that satan can only be found as a serpent slithering in the sand. Go ahead ... please do give us all your APOV defense.

The lord god said that he's become like one of "us?"
Who the fuck is he talking about? The angels? Him and Lucifer? Some other gods?

Seriously? The trinity. Father Son Spirit.. John 1:1 etc...

If I come back to this one it's going to be a thread of it's own. I have so much to write that I'm going to cut it for now.

Why exactly is it so important that they not have the knowledge about good and evil since it's the wizard himself who gave it to them???????????

Then they would become responsiable for it. attonement etc..

This answer doesn't make sense to me. Explain yourself. I see a god that at least claimed to be angry about them discovering the knowledge of good and evil. Mind you, they didn't TURN EVIL, they merely gained KNOWLEDGE OF good and evil. So explain what you mean when someone has to be responsible and/or atone for KNOWLEDGE?

The tree repersented the choice man was given before he was even created. this is how we know that attonment was apart of the plan since the 'beginning.'

We've gone round and round on this stupidity before so I will digress with this final thought.

Either learn to spell or learn to use a fucking spell check. It's like trying to read a god damn grade schooler's book report - and a lazy one at that!

[John V]

it stands to reason that neither of them went to hell since clearly they would have definitely believed in their creator

No, it doesn't Biblically stand to reason that mere belief in the existence of God provides salvation.

James 2
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

[Drich]

For: The germans are comming (If you are reading this.) This is an example of cinny, attempting to discredit and dismiss another human beings (or rather an entire community's) entire thought process accross the board, simply because these other people do not think as he does... Now who else in History (in the last generation or two) has also done this, in the regulation of of a very specific take on a set of given facts... Think hard. (Hint: If your having trouble ask your grandfather he maybe able to help.)

No he isn't, you moron. Here's an example to help you understand: Muslims believe that Allah is the one true God, Mohammad is the highest prophet, and Jesus is a lesser prophet. Now, reconcile that with your belief system without dismissing theirs. I'll wait.

You truly are so deluded that you cannot see it, Drich. I said it in another thread but I'll say it again; you are accusing others of doing what you do every day. You have to stretch to make everything you believe make sense, then deny evidence that doesn't need to stretch.

And that is because "You attempt to discredit and dismiss another human being's (or rather an entire community's) entire thought process across the board, simply because these other people do not think as you do... Now who else in History (in the last 2000 years) has also done this, in the regulation of of a very specific take on a set of given facts... Think hard. Hint: If your having trouble, study the history of Christianity, it may be able to help.)" I fixed the preceding quote to reflect reality, in case you still don't get it.

TheGermansarecomming is a member here. He and I are having a very specific conversation about one aspect Cinjin shares with german propaganda of the 1940. None of what you said makes any sense.

[Cyberman]

It's unreasonable to expect a one-on-one conversation with another person on what is the text equivalent of a party line. Only PMs and formal debates guarantee such privacy. Whatever you express in an open thread, you're going to have every interested party eavesdropping and joining in.

Like this, in fact.

[Cinjin]

A note in general about the OP:

I was once a devout christard. I was once the gullible halfwit.