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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 1:15 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 1:15 am by Ryantology.)
(November 17, 2012 at 11:54 pm)Daniel Wrote: (November 17, 2012 at 11:20 pm)Ryantology Wrote: It is counter-productive to the point of stupidity to assume the work of God in every gap of knowledge. I do not point to God in the gap of every gap of scientific knowledge (theory). If I did that, I'd be point to God an awful lot more than I do in science.
If you don't always do it, why do it at all? How do you choose what to attribute to God and what you consider worth actually examining? What made you decide "God made the moon" and favor that over the theories of scientists?
If you are going to appeal to ignorance at all, you might as well do it all the time for consistency's sake.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 2:10 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 2:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You know what really gets my goat about fine tuning arguments?
Why the fuck does the moon have to be any particular size or distance away if we're invoking godly magic in the first place? If, by magic, then why not wherever the hell god wants it to be...or some place so strange that the only way for me to survive is is that god is willing this all to be..like in my left nostril (current size and all..that's right..the moon fits in my nostril :don't ask, it's magic, and it's "possible": )? Why is required to stabilize anything, why... a moon...at all?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 3:14 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 3:24 am by Undeceived.)
(November 18, 2012 at 2:10 am)Rhythm Wrote: You know what really gets my goat about fine tuning arguments?
Why the fuck does the moon have to be any particular size or distance away if we're invoking godly magic in the first place? If, by magic, then why not wherever the hell god wants it to be...or some place so strange that the only way for me to survive is is that god is willing this all to be..like in my left nostril (current size and all..that's right..the moon fits in my nostril :don't ask, it's magic, and it's "possible": )? Why is required to stabilize anything, why... a moon...at all? Say God used a second set of magnetic poles to stabilize the earth, instead of the moon. Would we not call that fine-tuning also? Fine-tuning refers to the existence of a habitable zone that supports the best life form the universe can offer. Carbon-H2O is the best life form we've discovered, and it has an extremely small habitable zone--which our universe just so happens to have. You can come up with a million parallel universes (if you had the knowledge), but each would still need fine-tuning for complex reproductive life. Basically your question is "Why, Creator, did you shape us this way and not any of the other infinite ways?" And the funny thing is, we would ask the same question no matter what universe we found ourselves in.
My question is... why do the earth and moon appear so beautiful to us?
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 5:14 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 6:58 am by JohnDG.)
(November 16, 2012 at 10:25 pm)ronedee Wrote: DO YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN GOD?
...or is [proof] the main thing holding you back?
Do you believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe?
Can anyone here (besides us zealots) answer a question, or challenge to their reasoning seriously? oops thats 4!
Perhaps you should rephrase that question?
Belief: 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
If you ask the right questions maybe you will get the right answers.
How about do you accept the theory of god? I accept that what people refer to as god may actually be a missunderstood life form that exist outside our dimension.
Live every day as if already dead, that way you're not disappointed when you are. 
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 6:05 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 6:06 am by Welsh cake.)
(November 17, 2012 at 10:20 pm)Daniel Wrote: The universe is not able to self-start. It breaks every seriously established model of physics as we have it and emerges into a purely academic theoretical level of, well, silliness to imagine such a scenario as where the universe can create its own set of laws from nothing at all. The laws of physics and quantum mechanics all start to break down when you try to examine before time and space, before the Big Bang, and the universe's origins. Planck time makes no sense, mathematics becomes meaningless when you try to investigate said singularity.
It would be very unreasonable of you at this point to make any claim, either way, as to whether the universe started up independently or not.
To say "We currently don't know" would be the most intellectually honest position.
Quote:With that said, the Big Bang theory still has many merits, but it isn't the definitive truth as to the origin of the universe.
*sigh*
Your homework for the weekend:
Look up physical Cosmology, and then look up Cosmogony. Then tell me the difference and which branch of science does the Big Bang model actually belong in.
Quote:I most certainly am not agnostic. As I mentioned in another thread we have a serious astrophysicist at our Church who has had about 15 of his students go on to become science advisors to world leaders, and he won the Prime Minister's award for Science this year.
Do you hear that?
Listen.
...
That was the sound of universe not giving two fucks.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 6:50 am
(November 18, 2012 at 6:05 am)Welsh cake Wrote: The laws of physics and quantum mechanics all start to break down when you try to examine before time and space, before the Big Bang, and the universe's origins. Actually, all laws of physics break as soon as you move out of their field of reference.
Quote:It would be very unreasonable of you at this point to make any claim, either way, as to whether the universe started up independently or not.
To say "We currently don't know" would be the most intellectually honest position.
By that same logic all the atheists have to say "we currently don't know" to the existence of God.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 7:48 am
(November 17, 2012 at 11:58 pm)Daniel Wrote: The moon stabilizes our axis. It'll take some 4 billion years for it to drift far enough away not to do its job anymore. I'd say that makes its size and placement pretty much perfect for us.
Of course its perfect for us.
We evolved on the planet it orbits.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 11:41 am
At the beginning of the dinosaur age 230 million years ago the moon was some 5,500 miles closer to earth. Apparently that was "perfect" for them to evolve, too.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Quote:By that same logic all the atheists have to say "we currently don't know" to the existence of God.
We don't know for certain that a generic god doesn't exist. An intelligent creator is just quite unlikely.
But the Christian God as he is defined by Christians is a bundle of contradictions, so he's false unless logic doesn't work.
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RE: A Simple Question...or 3!
November 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 18, 2012 at 3:14 am)Undeceived Wrote: Say God used a second set of magnetic poles to stabilize the earth, instead of the moon. Would we not call that fine-tuning also? Why use any poles at all UD....abra-fucking-cadabera...remember?
Quote:Fine-tuning refers to the existence of a habitable zone that supports the best life form the universe can offer.
The best....oh boy..here we go again.....
Quote:Carbon-H2O is the best life form we've discovered, and it has an extremely small habitable zone--which our universe just so happens to have.
Why a universe at all, why a habitable zone..why carbon, why water, why not just one fucking planet..nothing around it - full of the life that got magic'd into existence?
Quote:You can come up with a million parallel universes (if you had the knowledge), but each would still need fine-tuning for complex reproductive life.
You mean each would require "fine tuning" for reproductive life if god were not necessary, if all that were required were those natural laws. Magic has no such requirements.
Quote: Basically your question is "Why, Creator, did you shape us this way and not any of the other infinite ways?" And the funny thing is, we would ask the same question no matter what universe we found ourselves in.
No, my question is,..why create everything in such a way as it could work without a god...and why create things in this way at all if you could have created things without all these requirements just the same. Why make yourself unnecessary? But in truth..I'm not asking this to god...I'm asking you...and you have a habit of responding to the questions asked of a god (that's telling, in and of itself btw). When you refer to tuning, and all of these very natural requirements (and how they're met)..you're actually explaining all of the ways that life came to be and is supported in the absence of a god....in the absence of magic.
Quote:My question is... why do the earth and moon appear so beautiful to us?
You must mean to you. You know an animal that proibably doesn't think very highly of the moon? Gazelle. Fucking lions.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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