Why do christians think god communicates with warm fuzzy feelings instead of direct verbal speach?

[Angrboda]

Oh....I see...and what does this ghost say to to you (assuming you've learned to listen......)?

He told me to Stick it out with my wife so long as she was 'repentant' (For the Herion thing) to not forsake her, and God would not forsake me. To spend 10 years working in the innercity missions, Most recently to answer your questions, and Go to a new church. Along with daily direction on where to take the business I manage for Him.

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Yes, please, do tell...did god send you a text message or is he more of a Morse code kind of guy?

If it is a question or a spiritual matter I am working through I can get a sermon on the radio to speak directly towards it, or can even get a direct revelation. Meaning that I won't know what to do or say and then just know something beyond my scope, that fits the situation or problem perfectly.

Then their are dreams/visions, and of course the angel/messenger story you guys seem to love so much. But I would say the great majority comes from simply being connected with a strong fellowship of believers and allowing God to work or give direction from with in the group.

This is so reminiscent of passages from Homer in which people perceived the gods speaking directly to them, it's scary. I suspect that as many such occurrences happen as in the past, as they are likely the result of the nature of the human brain, and that hasn't changed drastically. (And as a person with a psychotic disorder, who is knowledgeable in the ways such things work, it is all too familiar.) What likely has changed has been the interpretation of those events, whether they will be exalted as a prophet like Isaiah, or recommended to seek therapy, and how free they will be in sharing such experiences with others in an age which is highly skeptical of such things.

Even as Jesus says, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one opens the door, I will come into him" (Revelation 3:20). He enters our lives at our permission. And if we sincerely want to find out if he's there and what he is like, he will allow us to find him and know him. ()

"Hellooo Mr. Confirmation Bias!"

Drich, I'm feeling poorly today. Could you provide a reference to the specific passages in Mark, Luke and Acts which you claim explain the cessation of miracles. I'd like to read them.

The apocryphal Acts of Peter gives a more elaborate tale of Simon Magus' death. Simon is performing magic in the Forum, and in order to prove himself to be a god, he levitates up into the air above the Forum. The apostle Peter prays to God to stop his flying, and he stops mid-air and falls into a place called the Sacra Via (meaning, Holy Way), breaking his legs "in three parts". The previously non-hostile crowd then stones him. Now gravely injured, he had some people carry him on a bed at night from Rome to Ariccia, and was brought from there to Terracina to a person named Castor, who on accusations of sorcery was banished from Rome. The Acts then continue to say that he died "while being sorely cut by two physicians".

Whatever God's chosen mechanism for the cessation of miracles, it doesn't appear to have been very strong, as people will still be burned for witchcraft as late as the 18th century.

[Drich]

So you don't like it when someone pokes fun at where you put all of your FAITH?

You really don't get it do you, are you really this thick ?

Not believing in your god doesn't mean that one puts his 'belief' somewhere else, another absurd statement that only shows how dumb you are.
Since when did science became a belief or an absolute truth ?

You don't seem to realize that your theistic bullshit is futile to me, it is all man made nonsense that only leads to immoral behavior, dangerous thoughts and it is a direct threat to the values of any self respecting modern society.

Just smoke another bowel, and you will realize that none of this really matters anyway.

[Kousbroek]

Just smoke another bowel, and you will realize that none of this really matters anyway.

Ah ok, so we agree on the fact that religion is bullshit only for immature knuckleheads ? ( or pathetic money addicts )

[Drich]

This is so reminiscent of passages from Homer in which people perceived the gods speaking directly to them, it's scary. I suspect that as many such occurrences happen as in the past, as they are likely the result of the nature of the human brain, and that hasn't changed drastically. (And as a person with a psychotic disorder, who is knowledgeable in the ways such things work, it is all too familiar.) What likely has changed has been the interpretation of those events, whether they will be exalted as a prophet like Isaiah, or recommended to seek therapy, and how free they will be in sharing such experiences with others in an age which is highly skeptical of such things.

Do you know the difference between a man like Isaiah and someone who needs help? It is the accuracy of the content being shared. Apparently you and Mr. Simpson, simply assume that anyone meeting the criteria that he identifies automatically falls into the catagory you have labled, without anymore descernment given than what a "KK-Klan's man would give to a passing member of another race.

"Hellooo Mr. Confirmation Bias!"

Drich, I'm feeling poorly today. Could you provide a reference to the specific passages in Mark, Luke and Acts which you claim explain the cessation of miracles. I'd like to read them.

First explain why you believe Miricals have stopped?

Whatever God's chosen mechanism for the cessation of miracles, it doesn't appear to have been very strong, as people will still be burned for witchcraft as late as the 18th century.

So?

[Faith No More]

Just smoke another bowel, and you will realize that none of this really matters anyway.

I know you have received a lot of shit for your terrible word usage and spelling, but this has to be your funniest flub yet. Congratulations. I never thought you'd top the "Hitler and Gerbils" remark.

[Kousbroek]

Just smoke another bowel, and you will realize that none of this really matters anyway.

Ah ok, so we agree on the fact that religion is bullshit only for immature knuckleheads ? ( or pathetic money addicts )

Drich ?

[Angrboda]

Drich, I'm feeling poorly today. Could you provide a reference to the specific passages in Mark, Luke and Acts which you claim explain the cessation of miracles. I'd like to read them.

First explain why you believe Miricals have stopped?

My bad. I was referring to your statement below, that it is explained that there is a change in the frequency or nature of direct revelation. Please provide the references in question.

(Btw, I'm curious what one uses to judge "the accuracy and content" of a revelation with. If the revelation is not original, it's hard to determine that it's a revelation at all, as it's likely just repeating prior revelation. If it's an original revelation, then what does one compare its content to in order to validate it. [and if you say that it's consistent with other revelations, you're back at the 'unoriginal' horn of this dilemma. If I repeat a bunch of motifs that are attested to by tradition and then at the end of a long speech tack on something novel, does that make my something novel more likely to be true?] Your answer is wholly unsatisfactory. Let me give you a novel and unfamiliar revelation and you can tell me, based on accuracy of content, whether it's a valid revelation or not. "In the December a year from this date, apophenia will finish reading a book and her eyes will be opened." (Mind you, this 'book' could be the holy bible for all you know; tell me if this is a genuine revelation based on the criteria you've just laid out. Furthermore, you claim a revelation that you should seek a new church. Please explain what was accurate about the content of that revelation, presumably with reference to its content, preferably something that is not merely the result of filtering your life events through the corrupting influence of cognitive bias; what in the directive to seek a new church do you regard as true? [we'll deal with the mundanity question and base rate probabilities after we have the actual revelation and its result.])

You stated that God revealed to you that you should find a new church. I'm interested in the specifics of this revelation. Was this another dream, or a sermon you picked out to listen to, or perhaps a bunch of angry parishioners telling you to get the fuck out? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm still puzzling out whether your wife has a problem with an illegal narcotic or whether something about coastal water fowl is troubling her. Perhaps we can deal with that another time.

God and jesus spoke to well over a million people as chronicled in the bible, but in today's modern world god seems to only speak to his people in warm, fuzzy, peace feelings. Why the abrupt change? Are christians less apt to make up verbal conversations for their imaginary lord thesedays?

Jesus explains the change at the end of Matthew and Luke explains the Change in the beginning of the book of ACTS. It all boils down to Christ leaving and the Holy Spirit taking His place. The Holy Spirit Starts out directing 'feelings' but if one if faithful feelings get replaced by actual direction.

[Brakeman]

He does. as i said it starts with feelings and matures into direction.

It's been my experience that The Holy Spirit speaks to us the whole time, we just don't know how to listen. It isn't until we learn to follow what God has told us to do, that we learn to hear/listen to the Holy Spirit.

So where is the biblical support for this communication development? Moses, Peter, Paul, and the other characters in the bible did not communicate with god in this severely retarded fashion. Do you have any basis for assuming that this is how god speaks to christians now other than your own "warm feelings?"

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Peter, or petra was called 'rock' by Jesus because He was Hard headed and had to learn things the hard way. He failed in his faith many times (On the storm tossed sea, when he chopped dudes ear off in the garden, before the cock crowed, at the foot of the cross) and everytime His faith left him God allowed him to sink or fall or whatever consenquence his action took the holy Spirit did not pick Him up nor correct him. When he failed he was allowed to Fall. Perhaps that is why He contributes relitivly little to the NT as a whole.

Paul was struck Blind for a time so he could see the short commings in his faith. Outside the one on one He had with Christ we do not have any example of the Holy Spirit speaking with him directly. He institued or defined Spiritual Fruit and the doctrine of Spiritual gifts, (which is what I have based my teaching one here coupled with what Christ had said on the subject.) Which you identified as 'retarded'

Fix your quotes next time Drich, you had your words quoted as mine in your post. I have fixed them here.

Why do you think the two paragraphs about peter and paul answer my questions above about your basis for believing that the fuzzy feelings is the way god now talks and directs?

Furthermore, My dog can communicate better with me than your god can communicate with you. I know when he wants to stay, go out, or when he's hungry. Yet you think because you had feelings that you should stay with your wife in keeping up with your marriage vows and bowing to societal pressure that the feeling must have been a message from god.
It sounds to me that it could just as easily been a bad burrito.

That's sad. Because it sounds like you have invested more time with your dog than you have with trying to reach out to God.

Again a dodge of the question just to make a silly remark about me.

How could the christian who authored the gospel of matthew have received the detail of the story and words from his divine inspirer if he could not receive any message from god any clearer than "feelings and direction?" Was he a fundamentally different type of christian than yourself?

Matthew was one of the twelve. He witnessed what recorded.

Ha Ha, was that a joke or do you really believe that the apostle matthew was the actual author of the gospel of matthew? (Most serious biblical scholars do not)
No matter, take mark or luke for example in it's place, Do you think they were not 3rd person accounts that had to be relayed word for word through a mortal anonymous writer?

I would like you to explain why every christian I know backs down into the same hole you do when confronted with the question of how god communicates to you.

Could you identify that hole for me?

The metaphor of "hole" I'm referring to is "god doesn't speak actual words in a voice to me, I just get a feeling."

Despite the fact that it is obvious that the bible stories could not have been relayed through the authors in such a fashion and that bible itself doesn't state god's future communication methods, you seem unable to grasp the whole of the problem.

Do you not understand or rather have you not read the story of the talents before?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV

Are you trying to follow a coherent conversation or just trolling? Please explain the relevance of the bride and bridegroom story to my question of how god stages a change in communication methods. This board is for conversation and open debate, not a platform for you to troll with fake answers. Please explain yourself.

Mat 25:14-30

I posted that so you can see from the wrod of Christ Himself that we are not all equall bless or rather we are not all given to the same level of understanding as a Peter or Paul would have been. we are only to be faithful to what we have been given. For it is by this measure we are judged and not by the standard one perceives A Peter or a Paul to have obtained.

The bridegroom story does not say that their are separate casts of christians, it is merely a silly story that one should stay aware and ready.
Only a thick coating of SPAG could bend it's meaning that much.
But, going along with your argument, if god did have a higher caste that he loved more, it still doesn't explain the hundreds of thousands of others that heard god speak with a real voice, but now he doesn't. Why aren't you one of the higher castes that god could actually speak with? What's wrong with all the sweet christian ladies that I know that never hear his voice, is god still a misogynist? Why can't black christians actually hear the voice of god, are they not allowed into his caste of favorites either?

If god doesn't talk to you in anything but warm fuzzy feelings, then it's likely that god doesn't talk to anyone with anything different either.

What are you talking about? When did Iu ever say this? Matter of Fact I posted a link to a direct conversation (oneway) I was apart of with a 'Messenger of God.'

A conversation is two way and must pass information. Your description of the story sounded to me as if it was nothing more than a feeling that you should stick with your wife. Did I miss something? Care to elaborate?

..
I gave a very specific example Of God communicating a very Direct message to me in a way consistant with the biblical examples.

No you didn't. You said that:

He told me to Stick it out with my wife so long as she was 'repentant' (For the Herion thing) to not forsake her, and God would not forsake me. To spend 10 years working in the innercity missions, Most recently to answer your questions, and Go to a new church. Along with daily direction on where to take the business I manage for Him.

You didn't claim that jesus spoke to you through a voice or a burning bush, or through a donkey's ass. If you are making the claim now that god told you these things using a vocal voice that you heard with your ears, then tell us what his voice sounded like. Was it like James Earl Jones a deep bass, or more like twiggey's voice, a high squeal?

Jesus said: (matthew)
19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

So according to the scriptures you probably didn't do the right thing by staying with your wife. Jesus wanted you to forsake your wives if it held back your ministry, which dealing with an addict wife surely must have. It could have been satan that deceived you.

[Drich]

First explain why you believe Miricals have stopped?

My bad. I was referring to your statement below, that it is explained that there is a change in the frequency or nature of direct revelation. Please provide the references in question.

(Btw, I'm curious what one uses to judge "the accuracy and content" of a revelation with. If the revelation is not original, it's hard to determine that it's a revelation at all, as it's likely just repeating prior revelation. If it's an original revelation, then what does one compare its content to in order to validate it. [and if you say that it's consistent with other revelations, you're back at the 'unoriginal' horn of this dilemma. If I repeat a bunch of motifs that are attested to by tradition and then at the end of a long speech tack on something novel, does that make my something novel more likely to be true?] Your answer is wholly unsatisfactory. Let me give you a novel and unfamiliar revelation and you can tell me, based on accuracy of content, whether it's a valid revelation or not. "In the December a year from this date, apophenia will finish reading a book and her eyes will be opened." (Mind you, this 'book' could be the holy bible for all you know; tell me if this is a genuine revelation based on the criteria you've just laid out. Furthermore, you claim a revelation that you should seek a new church. Please explain what was accurate about the content of that revelation, presumably with reference to its content, preferably something that is not merely the result of filtering your life events through the corrupting influence of cognitive bias; what in the directive to seek a new church do you regard as true? [we'll deal with the mundanity question and base rate probabilities after we have the actual revelation and its result.])

You stated that God revealed to you that you should find a new church. I'm interested in the specifics of this revelation. Was this another dream, or a sermon you picked out to listen to, or perhaps a bunch of angry parishioners telling you to get the fuck out? Inquiring minds want to know.

I'm still puzzling out whether your wife has a problem with an illegal narcotic or whether something about coastal water fowl is troubling her. Perhaps we can deal with that another time.

Jesus explains the change at the end of Matthew and Luke explains the Change in the beginning of the book of ACTS. It all boils down to Christ leaving and the Holy Spirit taking His place. The Holy Spirit Starts out directing 'feelings' but if one if faithful feelings get replaced by actual direction.

I'm going to be honest here with you, by sheer volume you all are wearing me down. I can't keep this pace of one marithon post after another on multiple fronts. especially if you have several questions to ask. i just donot have the time or resources to look all of it up (as you have accuratly discovered) So I need to ask a favor. Please boil your questions down as simply and straight forward as you can otherwise If I can not figure out what you are asking i will have to move on.

I have no idea what your asking me to provide you with. To me it starts out talking about Miricals or how direct revelations has changed and ends up talking about my experience or water fowel...

Try this: Work on the assumption that i conceed to your superior writting skills and drop all of the snooty/ overly wordy insults as they only further confuse me, and then just out right ask me a question or out right insult me. I need the easy to read version not the Blue letter Alpo version.

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Fix your quotes next time Drich, you had your words quoted as mine in your post. I have fixed them here.

Why do you think the two paragraphs about peter and paul answer my questions above about your basis for believing that the fuzzy feelings is the way god now talks and directs?

Because Peter and Paul outside of Directly speaking with Christ had the same interaction we are privy to with the Holy Spirit.

No matter, take mark or luke for example in it's place, Do you think they were not 3rd person accounts that had to be relayed word for word through a mortal anonymous writer?

All writers were mortal, what is your point? Look at the works of Paul It is suggested He had a degernitive eye problem and rarly wrote anything himself and employed scribes to write for him. Again 3rd person, Mortal, wrote everything Down word for word.

The metaphor of "hole" I'm referring to is "god doesn't speak actual words in a voice to me, I just get a feeling."

Are you the standard in which the universe revolves around?

..
I gave a very specific example Of God communicating a very Direct message to me in a way consistant with the biblical examples.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html
http://atheistforums.org/thread-13378.html

So according to the scriptures you probably didn't do the right thing by staying with your wife. Jesus wanted you to forsake your wives if it held back your ministry, which dealing with an addict wife surely must have. It could have been satan that deceived you.

context. To Forsake one 'family' for the sake of Christ is to choose Christ when faced with an altumatium. When your kin says it's me or that Jesus, and you pick Jesus is what the scripture you took out of context actually means.

The reason I did not address the rest of your post is you have derailed the conversation, and I do not have the time or inclination to figure out what you are talking about. If you want to fix or restate your question to be on topic i will give your efforts my full attention. Otherwise know I am looking to seriously editing out some of the BS from these posts.

[Cato]

I'm going to be honest here with you, by sheer volume you all are wearing me down. I can't keep this pace of one marithon post after another on multiple fronts. especially if you have several questions to ask. i just donot have the time or resources to look all of it up (as you have accuratly discovered) So I need to ask a favor. Please boil your questions down as simply and straight forward as you can otherwise If I can not figure out what you are asking i will have to move on.

Apo gives you a 400 word reply and your mind gets blown. God gives you almost 800,000 words worth of text and you rejoice. Regardless of your belief, how do reconcile this difference in defense of your impotence?

Must be the same mechanism that fervent believers use to describe the difference between a 6000 year old earth and a 4,500,000,000 year old earth.